Freethought & Rationalism Archive

thomaq · 05-23-2003, 08:33 AM

what are the competing scientific explanations for the origin of the universe?
universe came from an infinitely dense singularity? something like that?

thomaq · 05-23-2003, 09:56 AM

i am examining naturalism and i think i have some misconceptions of how we explain the big bang, origin of space/time etc. i would appreciate it if someone could help me out. if not, its all good. maybe i'll read a book. any suggestions of good physics books to read for a non-physicist that deal with the "beginning"?

ps418 · 05-23-2003, 10:32 AM

If you're looking for the physical explanation of what if anything 'caused' or came before the singularity, I doubt you'll find anything resembling science, since there's no way to observe or infer what happened before. Then, I'm not a physics type, so someone else here may have a different opinion.

Patrick

cpickett · 05-23-2003, 10:40 AM

You can't go wrong with Stephen Hawking's: A Brief History of Time. It covers all of the major stuff, the big bang, etc.

thomaq · 05-23-2003, 11:06 AM

cool. thanks very much. is a brief history of time still widely viewed as current and a currently competing explanation?

cpickett · 05-23-2003, 11:31 AM

He updated it in 1996, which for Cosmology is relatively recent, but he doesn't really go into string theory much, which is what many are looking to as the "GUT" (Grand Unified Theory).

The best book I have read on String Theory (M-Theory) is The Elegant Universe by Brain Greene.

Jet Grind · 05-23-2003, 11:45 AM

thomaq,

read this, it's the chapter from the book I recommended to you in which Victor Stenger explains the beginning of the universe naturally.

http://spot.colorado.edu/~vstenger/Found/06Cosmic.pdf

Shadowy Man · 05-23-2003, 01:40 PM

I'm currently reading The Infationary Universe by Alan Guth.

It's geared toward the layperson, though it is definitely a dense read.

It does a really good job outlining the history of the development of Inflation Theory. Though it doesn't explore the Big Bang theory much.

NB: The Big Bang Theory talks about how the universe has evolved from its early state (i.e. around the time of last scattering onward) and Inflation Theory describes how the universe may have gotten the conditions (e.g. isotropy of the background radiation) that are considered "initial conditions" in the standard Big Bang Theory.

Jabu Khan · 05-23-2003, 08:51 PM

The force of, rate of expansion of, cooling of, etc. the "Big Bang" are the variables that dictate the laws of Physics. What ever caused it or occured before Plank's time constant can't be determined using the laws of Physics.

It sounds like circular-logic but it's just the limits of our current understanding.

05-23-2003, 08:33 AM	#1
thomaq Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: california Posts: 154	Naturalist Explanations? what are the competing scientific explanations for the origin of the universe? universe came from an infinitely dense singularity? something like that?

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05-23-2003, 09:56 AM	#2
thomaq Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: california Posts: 154	i am examining naturalism and i think i have some misconceptions of how we explain the big bang, origin of space/time etc. i would appreciate it if someone could help me out. if not, its all good. maybe i'll read a book. any suggestions of good physics books to read for a non-physicist that deal with the "beginning"?

05-23-2003, 10:32 AM	#3
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	If you're looking for the physical explanation of what if anything 'caused' or came before the singularity, I doubt you'll find anything resembling science, since there's no way to observe or infer what happened before. Then, I'm not a physics type, so someone else here may have a different opinion. Patrick

05-23-2003, 10:40 AM	#4
cpickett Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Arcadia, IN, USA Posts: 308	You can't go wrong with Stephen Hawking's: A Brief History of Time. It covers all of the major stuff, the big bang, etc.

05-23-2003, 11:06 AM	#5
thomaq Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: california Posts: 154	cool. thanks very much. is a brief history of time still widely viewed as current and a currently competing explanation?

05-23-2003, 11:31 AM	#6
cpickett Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Arcadia, IN, USA Posts: 308	He updated it in 1996, which for Cosmology is relatively recent, but he doesn't really go into string theory much, which is what many are looking to as the "GUT" (Grand Unified Theory). The best book I have read on String Theory (M-Theory) is The Elegant Universe by Brain Greene.

05-23-2003, 11:45 AM	#7
Jet Grind Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Southern Maine, USA Posts: 220	thomaq, read this, it's the chapter from the book I recommended to you in which Victor Stenger explains the beginning of the universe naturally. http://spot.colorado.edu/~vstenger/Found/06Cosmic.pdf

05-23-2003, 01:40 PM	#8
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	I'm currently reading The Infationary Universe by Alan Guth. It's geared toward the layperson, though it is definitely a dense read. It does a really good job outlining the history of the development of Inflation Theory. Though it doesn't explore the Big Bang theory much. NB: The Big Bang Theory talks about how the universe has evolved from its early state (i.e. around the time of last scattering onward) and Inflation Theory describes how the universe may have gotten the conditions (e.g. isotropy of the background radiation) that are considered "initial conditions" in the standard Big Bang Theory.

05-23-2003, 08:51 PM	#9
Jabu Khan Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the impenetrable fortress of the bubbleheads Posts: 1,308	The force of, rate of expansion of, cooling of, etc. the "Big Bang" are the variables that dictate the laws of Physics. What ever caused it or occured before Plank's time constant can't be determined using the laws of Physics. It sounds like circular-logic but it's just the limits of our current understanding.

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