balisongsong

How does the atheist answer the ultimate and yet immediate questions of life?,questions often suppressed by being prohibited.

WHAT CAN WE KNOW? Why is there anything at all? Why not nothing? Where does man come from and where does he go? What is the ultimate ground and meaning of all reality?

WHAT CAN WE HOPE? What is the meaning of the whole? What is left for us: death,which makes everything pointless at the end? Is there something that sustains us in all the hollowness,which never permits us to despair?

WHAT OUGHT WE DO? Why and to whom are we ultimately responsible? What deserves forthright contempt and what love? What is the point of loyalty and friendship,but also what is the point of suffering and sin?

NialScorva

Welcome to the philosophy forum, balisongsong.

However, the philosophy forum is generally a place for non-religious discussion, and you probably will not get as good a response here as you will in one of the more religious forums. I will transfer this thread to the Miscellaneous Religious Discussions forum to get a better audience.

Bree

I am interested to know why you think these questions are the "ultimate" and "immediate" questions of life.

Goliath

balisingsong,

First of all, different atheists will give you different answers. Atheism has nothing to do with worldviews. Secondly, when have you seen an atheist prohibit the asking of any of the questions that you ask below?

I don't know. To find out what can't be known, would we not have to know of everything? I'm not sure that this question can be answered.

I don't know.

Why must there be an ultimate ground and ultimate meaning of all reality?

I'm not sure I understand the question. People often hope *for* things to happen, not hope things.

Again, I don't understand what you're talking about. The whole of what?

Why must something have purpose for eternity in order to have purpose? Why do you make such a ridiculous assumption?

I don't know, but I doubt it. Can you name one person who has never felt despair?

That's a function of the individual to whom you're you're asking, as well as a function of the situation that you're asking about.

For example, if the person that you're addressing is me, and the situation is that I'm hungry (which I currently am), then the answer to your question would be that we ought to get something to eat. On the other hand, if you ask this question to President Bush, and the situation is whether or not the Wall of Separation of Church and State should be torn down, he'd be all for tearing it down (not that such a move would be constitutional, but hey, that's another topic).

What do you mean by "ultimately responsible?" Why must we be "ultimately responsible" to anyone or anything?

That would be a function of the individual that you're asking.

Well, it is (usually) beneficial to have friends, especially loyal friends. As to your second question, since sin involves the concept of a god, you would have to prove that a god exists before that part of your second question even makes sense.

As to what the point of suffering is, I don't know. Who said that there had to be a point to it?

Sincerely,

Goliath

Kosh

The ultimate answer is "42".

But then, the only important questions are:

"Who are you?"

"What do you want?"

Jamie_L

bailsongsong:

I think Goliat hit on most of the stuff I have to say, but I feel like saying it anyway. Just ignore the overlap.

Well, I'm not sure what the "ultimate and yet immediate questions of life" are exactly. I'll stick to the specific questions you've asked below. I'm not sure what you mean by suppressing and prohibiting these questions. It seems anyone can ask any question to themselves.

General answer: I answer most questions about existence by observing existence.

WHAT CAN WE KNOW? is a really deep, head-hurting philosophical question that seems to me to be in no way immediate to my life. I've never asked that question, and I don't worry much about the answer.

Why ask WHY? It is an assumption/assertion that reality has a meaning or needs an explanation. I don't really have the drive to ask that question that other people seem to. The questions themselves seem irrelevant to my life. My oberservations of reality provide me with no reason to believe in reasons for existence.

Where does man come from and go? Well, at the base level, we're assembled from pieces of the universe, and when we disappear, those pieces get disassembled and redistributed. Heck, most of our pieces get redistributed and reassembled over and over again throughout our lives.

We can hope whatever we can imagine. See discussions of meaning above. My observations of life give me no reason to believe that our consciousness exists after death. Is there something that sustains us? Sure, us. Is there something that never permits despair? Since I've never known anyone who never despaired, I'd have to say 'no'.

I don't know that we 'ought' to do anything. Again, it's an assumption/assertion that we are ultimately responsible to anyone/thing. I've observed no standard for contempt and love. Answers may vary. What is the point of loyalty and friendship? They help us. Suffering: once again, you assume/assert there is a point. My observations lead me to believe there isn't one.

Bottom line: you're right, I, as an atheist, don't have a lot of the "answers" you are concerned about. However, those answers may not exist. Why do I need them?

Jamie

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Jamie_L ]</p>

Ut

You all left out the all-important: "Where do you want to go today?"

Philosoft

What about, "Can you hear me now?"

K

balisongsong:


How does the theist answer the ultimate and yet immediate questions of life?, questions often suppressed by being prohibited.

WHAT CAN WE KNOW? Why is there a God at all? Why not nothing? Where does God come from and where does He go? What is the ultimate ground and meaning of His reality?

WHAT CAN WE HOPE? What is the meaning of the whole? What is left for us: Heaven or Hell, which make everything pointless at the end? Is there something that sustains us in all the hollowness, which never permits us to despair?

WHAT OUGHT WE DO? Why and to whom are we ultimately responsible? What deserves forthright contempt and what love? What is the point of loyalty and friendship, but also what is the point of suffering and sin?

Tom Sawyer

Good question. Let me know if you find out.

Life is what we can hope for. We're only here for a few short decades, so we must make the time count. Perhaps there is no point to it and it's all just a big waste of time. If that's the case, you may as well spend that time enjoying it.

IMHO, religion developed mainly to answer this question. Life sucks a lot of the time and it helps people to know that this is all transitory and there's something better waiting for them when they're done. Unfortunately, there isn't. When you die, you're GONE. If you have children, your genetic code continues, but that's it for you. That's a fairly horrific thought to me, but unfortunately true.

To quote a wise old man, "You must do what you feel is right". Just because there's no higher power judging you is no excuse for bad behaviour. We live in a society and must respect the other members of that society; not because God told us to, but because it's the right thing to do.


We are ultimately responsible to ourselves. Have contempt for those who would harm you and love for those who would help you - that's selfish, but I believe it to be true. The point of loyalty and friendship is that people who operate in groups have a selective advantage over those who don't and are thus more likely to pass their genes onto the next generation. There is no point to suffering and sin, get over it and move on.