Freethought & Rationalism Archive

03-12-2003, 05:17 PM

Lobstrosity, thanks for the views but like Jennifer D said, I was looking for views and I have taken your views under consideration. IF I reply to you now, I'd turn this thread into a discussion thread. Thanks anyway.

By Shadowy Man

Well, since you weren't satisfied with the EEG, which would do what you ask, how about a Functional MRI? That will also measure the change in the brain while someone is fully awake and doing something like reading a book.

Yes, these things can be measured. Believe it or not!

My reply : I'd hear about MRI (is it what they called Cat Scan?) but not very familiar with it.

By JenniferD

The day that science does bring forth some evidence is the day I start paying attention to said evidence. My mind is not closed to the possibility. I just said all the "evidence" I've seen so far is bogus. I would love to see some good, scientific evidence for it, because that would be awesome.

My reply : Same here ... at least people could have stop calling people with such abilities (like my friend) a freak if they understood properly.

Oops, sorry I missed that. I am going to go ahead and still call it coincidence. It's like I already said, billions of events happen to everybody every single day, and we ignore most of them. Then, when two coinciding events happen at the same time (which is bound to happen every once in a while, considering the amount of events happening) we see the connection and find it amazing. Maybe coincidences are amazing, but that is still not even close to evidence for anything supernatural.

Jen

My reply : O_o Coincidence? Oh Ok ... but for your information, I don't believe in any coincidence happening in anything.

Abbasux · 03-12-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim
Just wondering what you guys think about Psyhic Abilities. I had read a few posts before from others who don't seems to accept that such abilities could exist.

Again ... just wondering, nothing much.

Thank you beforehand.

I dont really know much about psychic abilities but I think there are some strange things that are hard to explain. For example my great grandma use to get bad feelings about things before they happened. I dont know what caused that but when my grandpa was 18 he went water skiing and my grandma felt he would be in an accident and that day he was, ended up with stitches on his head and he lost his finger. It wasn't anything that put him in the hospital for a long time but still she had a feeling before it happened. And that was just one example. It seems that stuff like that happens to alot of people. I wonder what causes that in some people?

Ensign Steve · 03-12-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim
My reply : Same here ... at least people could have stop calling people with such abilities (like my friend) a freak if they understood properly.

I never called anybody a freak. One of my best friends is a "psychic" and I don't call him a freak either. I just don't make my life decisions based upon anything he says.

And how can anybody be expected to "understand properly" if it is a power so mystical that science can't explain it?

Quote:

My reply : O_o Coincidence? Oh Ok ... but for your information, I don't believe in any coincidence happening in anything.

Coincidence isn't something to believe in. It just means that one event coincides with another event. If you don't believe that coincidences are accidental or random, that's a different story.

However, I do. I believe that events are ruled by natural laws and probability, and there is nothing supernatural about it. And since you're "just looking for views, nothing more" there's my view.

03-12-2003, 06:48 PM

By JenniferD

I never called anybody a freak. One of my best friends is a "psychic" and I don't call him a freak either. I just don't make my life decisions based upon anything he says.

And how can anybody be expected to "understand properly" if it is a power so mystical that science can't explain it?

My reply : I wasn't talking about you, I was referring to others.
If you're a psychic and you go and tell someone something bad going to happen (even in my country), they will be angry at you back because in their point of view, it is like you are cursing them for something bad to happen. A lot of time, it happened to people I knew personally.

Coincidence isn't something to believe in. It just means that one event coincides with another event. If you don't believe that coincidences are accidental or random, that's a different story.

My reply : Yup, That's what I meant.

However, I do. I believe that events are ruled by natural laws and probability, and there is nothing supernatural about it. And since you're "just looking for views, nothing more" there's my view.

My reply : Acceptable view.

echidna · 03-13-2003, 12:01 AM

Seraphim, as I drove to work today, I saw a yellow car. Very spookily this is also the colour of the handle of a screwdriver which I own.

Maybe you could allude as to the eerie connection between these two naively unconnected events ?

03-13-2003, 12:14 AM

By echidna

Seraphim, as I drove to work today, I saw a yellow car. Very spookily this is also the colour of the handle of a screwdriver which I own.

Maybe you could allude as to the eerie connection between these two naively unconnected events ?

My reply : I don't know ... maybe in one of the times when you used your screwdriver, you almost had an accident with it (a close brush) and that "emotion" is registered in your head. When you see this car, maybe that "emotion" of having another close brush/accident appeared in form of a spooky feeling ...

Just a guess ... don't ask me why I said it, I just did so when it comes to my mind.

echidna · 03-13-2003, 12:32 AM

You're convinced that the 2 events are connected ?

What about if there were no spooky feeling, if I just noticed it ?

03-13-2003, 12:45 AM

by echidna

You're convinced that the 2 events are connected ?

My reply : No ... I'm replying to you who asked me if the two events are connected because of the spooky feeling you had.

What about if there were no spooky feeling, if I just noticed it ?

My reply : WHAT IF don't register ... either Yes, you had spooky feeling OR No, you didn't.

Lobstrosity · 03-13-2003, 12:58 AM

He's commenting on the fact that you don't that coincidences can happen randomly. Seeing a yellow car while owning a yellow screwdriver is a coincidence. According to your beliefs, this was clearly not a random occurance. Here, allow me to make an argument for why coincidences cleary can be the product of purely random chance:

First let us assert that the flip of a given penny is completely random. If you sit there and flip the penny a billion times, you will find that approximately half the time (500,000,000) you will get heads whereas the rest you will get tails. Also, each result is wholly independent of every other result. It's a random process. Nothing mysical is governing what side of the coin will be face-up.

Now, take ten pennies and toss them into the air. What are the chances that they will all be heads when you look? Well, mathematically this is easy to figure out: there is only one way for them to be all heads out of a total of 2^10 possible configurations, which means your probability of getting all heads through pure random luck is 1/1024. So what does this mean? Well, if you and 1023 friends all get together and each of you throws a fist-full of ten pennies in the air, it is likely that at least one of you will get all heads. Now getting all heads is an amazing coincidence, but clearly random chance allows it to happen. Random chance says it will happen every so often. "Coincidences" will happen in a world governed by random processes, for they are just defined as outcomes with low (but not zero!) probability. So if you see a coincidence, I know you're tempted to think something mystical must be at work, but ask yourself why this is. Why must something mystical be at work when that very outcome is expected out of sheer random chance? How can you say with any confidence that it wasn't random?

echidna · 03-13-2003, 01:25 AM

Neat trick, Lob. That might take Seraphim a while.

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03-12-2003, 05:17 PM	#81
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Lobstrosity, thanks for the views but like Jennifer D said, I was looking for views and I have taken your views under consideration. IF I reply to you now, I'd turn this thread into a discussion thread. Thanks anyway. By Shadowy Man Well, since you weren't satisfied with the EEG, which would do what you ask, how about a Functional MRI? That will also measure the change in the brain while someone is fully awake and doing something like reading a book. Yes, these things can be measured. Believe it or not! My reply : I'd hear about MRI (is it what they called Cat Scan?) but not very familiar with it. By JenniferD The day that science does bring forth some evidence is the day I start paying attention to said evidence. My mind is not closed to the possibility. I just said all the "evidence" I've seen so far is bogus. I would love to see some good, scientific evidence for it, because that would be awesome. My reply : Same here ... at least people could have stop calling people with such abilities (like my friend) a freak if they understood properly. Oops, sorry I missed that. I am going to go ahead and still call it coincidence. It's like I already said, billions of events happen to everybody every single day, and we ignore most of them. Then, when two coinciding events happen at the same time (which is bound to happen every once in a while, considering the amount of events happening) we see the connection and find it amazing. Maybe coincidences are amazing, but that is still not even close to evidence for anything supernatural. Jen My reply : O_o Coincidence? Oh Ok ... but for your information, I don't believe in any coincidence happening in anything.

03-12-2003, 06:48 PM	#84
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	By JenniferD I never called anybody a freak. One of my best friends is a "psychic" and I don't call him a freak either. I just don't make my life decisions based upon anything he says. And how can anybody be expected to "understand properly" if it is a power so mystical that science can't explain it? My reply : I wasn't talking about you, I was referring to others. If you're a psychic and you go and tell someone something bad going to happen (even in my country), they will be angry at you back because in their point of view, it is like you are cursing them for something bad to happen. A lot of time, it happened to people I knew personally. Coincidence isn't something to believe in. It just means that one event coincides with another event. If you don't believe that coincidences are accidental or random, that's a different story. My reply : Yup, That's what I meant. However, I do. I believe that events are ruled by natural laws and probability, and there is nothing supernatural about it. And since you're "just looking for views, nothing more" there's my view. My reply : Acceptable view.

03-13-2003, 12:01 AM	#85
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Seraphim, as I drove to work today, I saw a yellow car. Very spookily this is also the colour of the handle of a screwdriver which I own. Maybe you could allude as to the eerie connection between these two naively unconnected events ?

03-13-2003, 12:14 AM	#86
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	By echidna Seraphim, as I drove to work today, I saw a yellow car. Very spookily this is also the colour of the handle of a screwdriver which I own. Maybe you could allude as to the eerie connection between these two naively unconnected events ? My reply : I don't know ... maybe in one of the times when you used your screwdriver, you almost had an accident with it (a close brush) and that "emotion" is registered in your head. When you see this car, maybe that "emotion" of having another close brush/accident appeared in form of a spooky feeling ... Just a guess ... don't ask me why I said it, I just did so when it comes to my mind.

03-13-2003, 12:32 AM	#87
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	You're convinced that the 2 events are connected ? What about if there were no spooky feeling, if I just noticed it ?

03-13-2003, 12:45 AM	#88
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	by echidna You're convinced that the 2 events are connected ? My reply : No ... I'm replying to you who asked me if the two events are connected because of the spooky feeling you had. What about if there were no spooky feeling, if I just noticed it ? My reply : WHAT IF don't register ... either Yes, you had spooky feeling OR No, you didn't.

03-13-2003, 12:58 AM	#89
Lobstrosity Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 719	He's commenting on the fact that you don't that coincidences can happen randomly. Seeing a yellow car while owning a yellow screwdriver is a coincidence. According to your beliefs, this was clearly not a random occurance. Here, allow me to make an argument for why coincidences cleary can be the product of purely random chance: First let us assert that the flip of a given penny is completely random. If you sit there and flip the penny a billion times, you will find that approximately half the time (500,000,000) you will get heads whereas the rest you will get tails. Also, each result is wholly independent of every other result. It's a random process. Nothing mysical is governing what side of the coin will be face-up. Now, take ten pennies and toss them into the air. What are the chances that they will all be heads when you look? Well, mathematically this is easy to figure out: there is only one way for them to be all heads out of a total of 2^10 possible configurations, which means your probability of getting all heads through pure random luck is 1/1024. So what does this mean? Well, if you and 1023 friends all get together and each of you throws a fist-full of ten pennies in the air, it is likely that at least one of you will get all heads. Now getting all heads is an amazing coincidence, but clearly random chance allows it to happen. Random chance says it will happen every so often. "Coincidences" will happen in a world governed by random processes, for they are just defined as outcomes with low (but not zero!) probability. So if you see a coincidence, I know you're tempted to think something mystical must be at work, but ask yourself why this is. Why must something mystical be at work when that very outcome is expected out of sheer random chance? How can you say with any confidence that it wasn't random?

03-13-2003, 01:25 AM	#90
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Neat trick, Lob. That might take Seraphim a while.

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