Volker.Doormann

Any references to this assertion? (I have read a {new} thesis from a {catholic} theologian from Swiss, that miracle are able to beat logic and natural laws.)

ex-xian

That's what I've been trying to get across in this thread and this one. I don't know why people have such a problem with it.

ex-xian

You're probably misunderstanding him, since catholics follow the thomastic tradition. But as for references, ok. Try reading, Descartes, Leibnitz, Anselm, Spinoza, Thomas, Berkely, Kant, Martyr, Miamonedes, Augustine, Whitehead, Hartshorne, Rem Edwards. Is that enough?

Volker.Doormann

You speak about theologian philosophers? - Theo_logy is the science of god. Theologian philosophers have knowledge about god. If not then they are not theologian philosophers, as virgins are no mothers. AFAIK no one of these people have ever claimed they have knowledge about god. Just brain gymnastic without any meaning. See goofy Kant in his stupid philosophy about 'Americans' and ''Nigger''.

I do not care about 'catholic' claims beyond all truth of nature, and assertions without any base of many ''Theologians' have not a greater significance as an assertion of one 'Theologian' without any base.

Nectaris

DC, I realize this, but what I was wondering about was whether logic exists as part of the universe or it is somehow separate. If one considers logic to be a subset of the universe, and assuming that god created the universe, than god has created a rock so large that not even he/she/it can move it.

If we assume that logic is somehow separate than the universe than there is something that has always co-existed with the creator god, and was not created.