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Reload this Page Who told Jesus to die for me?
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:12 PM   #51
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The joy of seeing even incorrigibles like me and Fenton saved I take it. That's love.

Me??? What the hell did I do???

Alright Radorth,enough shenanigans. I`d like you to tell me where all this sin Jesus had to pay for came from.
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:14 PM   #52
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OK SDA, so Paul did a better job of answering your simplistic question than I did. I should have consulted him sooner.

Rad
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:15 PM   #53
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"...for the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing..." 1 Cor 1:18

But I shall attempt to explain it, as it is the key to finding the grace we all need, knowing the love of God, true spiritual revival, the impetus to repentance, etc. Also we've seen how (the Christian) God's motives have been impugned here, so it seems we ought to hear what they are from the NT at least.
Rad, I have 'debated' with a Catholic called Eugene on their home turf, a Catholic forum, and shot their arguments down with their own bible, but they refused to listen to the suppsed word of their god, it seems.

I would like to say that I know how to debate with them, but they never cease to amaze me, and so, I must find new ways of answering their arguments. What that verse says, Rad, is basically that non-theists are too 'forsaken', 'lost', or 'stubborn' to understand what the bible says, for one reason or another. That is simply not true. The most bigoted and stubborn people are close-minded theists who believe that their way is right.

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"and the base things of the world, and the things that are not, God has chosen to bring to nothing the things that are. that no flesh should glory in his presence. (1 Cor 1:28-29)

Not to worry. Nothing strips one of pride and self glorying like seeing what Jesus endured for our sakes.
Too bad that Jesus came back, mitigating the 'sacrifice' entirely. Hey, if I knew that the suffering would be over in 3 hours rather than 3 DAYS (which tends to happen on the cross), and I knew I would come back to life, I would gladly do it. Almost anyone would.

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"...for the joy set before him, he endured the cross, despising the shame..." (Heb 12:2)

The joy of seeing even incorrigibles like me and Fenton saved I take it. That's love.
Not really. It implies that Jesus only did it for the joy he could gain.

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"For it pleased the Father that in him all the fullness should dwell, and by him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through his blood on the cross. And you who once were alienated...he has reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and irreproachable in his sight..." (Col 1:20)

This means you winstonjen!
More emotional blackmail. Jesus is the only way to be saved and go to heaven. He loves us all. Don't turn to him and BURN IN HELL FOREVER! Not very loving, is it?

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"....having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was aginst us, which was contrary to us. And he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to a cross." (Col 2:14)

The big meanie.
Why do we need the requirement anyway? Is not believing in Jesus as bad as commiting genocide, like Hitler did? And according to the bible, he goes straight to heaven, for being Christian. Praise!

:boohoo: :boohoo:
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:15 PM   #54
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I`m waiting.....
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:19 PM   #55
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Me??? What the hell did I do???
Oh sorry, your grace.

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I`d like you to tell me where all this sin Jesus had to pay for came from.
We invented our own rules and pet philosophies because we thought God was hiding something from us and we wanted to be "free." Unfortunately said rules and pet philosophies all turned out to be self-destructive. Not only that, we have to work 40 hours and wear clothes on hot days. What a mess.

Rad
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:22 PM   #56
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We invented our own rules and pet philosophies because we thought God was hiding something from us and we wanted to be "free." Unfortunately said rules and pet philosophies all turned out to be self-destructive. Not only that, we have to work 40 hours and wear clothes on hot days. What a mess.

Rad
Didn't god invent his own rules? And didn't people who followed them commit atrocities like the Inquisitions in his name? And didn't the god you worship approve of this by not stopping it?
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:26 PM   #57
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Not really. It implies that Jesus only did it for the joy he could gain.
Ah, so he endured what everybody is calling a horrible death, for some personal gain. Right? You must believe in the resurrection. Otherwise this is nonsense, like most of your cynical posts.

I guess I shouldn't mention the cross here. It upsets people.

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Old 02-11-2003, 10:31 PM   #58
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Ah, so he endured what everybody is calling a horrible death, for some personal gain. Right?
Horrible, yes, but there are worse things. Going through 10 days on the cross, being taken down only to suffer more, is probably worse.

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You must believe in the resurrection. Otherwise this is nonsense, like most of your cynical posts.

I guess I shouldn't mention the cross here. It upsets people.

Rad
No, what you say is nonsense, Rad. I'm just using rationality and logic to argue against your theistic stance. So, for the sake of discussion, I am assuming the resurrection is true, and then proving how it is not a sacrifice.
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:31 PM   #59
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Originally posted by Radorth

We invented our own rules and pet philosophies because we thought God was hiding something from us and we wanted to be "free." Unfortunately said rules and pet philosophies all turned out to be self-destructive. Not only that, we have to work 40 hours and wear clothes on hot days. What a mess.

Rad
You are of course referring to rules and philosophies we invented over 2000 years ago right?

Hmm.....So if there was no such thing as Greek philosophy you wouldn`t have to work and everyone would be nude?
This is quite a lot to imagine from a guy who doesn`t even type out swear words on the internet.
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:39 PM   #60
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Originally posted by Fenton Mulley

This is quite a lot to imagine from a guy who doesn`t even type out swear words on the internet.
Are you referring to god, or Radorth, here?
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