Coragyps

I am tired unto death of creationist BS about the "fraudlent" embryo drawings of Herr Doktor Haeckel and the claim that "human embryos don't have gills/gill slits". I know we never have gills, but does anyone know of some embryology site with photographs, as opposed to drawings, comparing these structures in various vertebrates? I'd love to have pics of humans, lizards, axolotls, and carp at equivalent stages of development to refer some of these maroons to when they start Haeckel-bashing.

tgamble

<a href="http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/embryos/Haeckel.html" target="_blank">http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/embryos/Haeckel.html</a>

<a href="http://inia.cls.org/~ae/ae_law/ar_hb2548/Haeckels_embryos.htm" target="_blank">http://inia.cls.org/~ae/ae_law/ar_hb2548/Haeckels_embryos.htm</a>

<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/feb99.html" target="_blank">http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/feb99.html</a>

<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/#haeckel-embryo" target="_blank">http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/#haeckel-embryo</a>

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: tgamble ]</p>

Coragyps

Thanks, tg!

Dr.GH

Good links.

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Dr.GH ]</p>

pangloss

As you probably know, the embryonic tissue that in fish forms gills and in humans forms portions of the face and neck are the same - the phrayngeal apparatus. It does resemble gills in a sense, and it takes less 'development' for these structures to form gills.

The cretin must focus on the old drawings, as thazt is all they have. A discussion of the actual development drives most creationists into "thsats over my head, but I know you are wrong" mode.

Dr.GH

Here is an online Developmental textbook;

<a href="http://www.devbio.com/" target="_blank">http://www.devbio.com/</a>

Nic Tamzek

Hey, I didn't know about this. Two very good sublinks I just saw:

The Reception of Karl Ernst von Baer's Law
<a href="http://www.devbio.com/chap22/link2201a.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.devbio.com/chap22/link2201a.shtml</a>


Ernst Haeckel and the Biogenetic Law
(An informed opinion)
<a href="http://www.devbio.com/chap22/link2201a.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.devbio.com/chap22/link2201a.shtml</a>


See also the rest of ch. 22, e.g.:
<a href="http://www.devbio.com/ch22.html" target="_blank">http://www.devbio.com/ch22.html</a>

...there's a good (draft) section on YEC although ID would be more relevant today.

Great page, I hope it stays online.

nic

Nic Tamzek

Here is the best page for getting the authoritative figures, actually (the drawings/photos in Miller's text aren't the kind of detailed version you'll find here:

The figs are from the Richardson paper

HAECKEL AND THE VERTEBRATE ARCHETYPE
<a href="http://zygote.swarthmore.edu/evo5.html" target="_blank">http://zygote.swarthmore.edu/evo5.html</a>

Jeez, these really should go into the Wells FAQ...

nic

Dr.GH

Nic, I agree, for the 2 cents that is worth. Actually, according to my new corporate bosses, it is worth at least $2.

Valentine Pontifex

The page does have a signifant error in that it repeats the old story that Haeckle was convicted of fraud by an university court.