Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Coragyps · 04-30-2002, 07:27 AM

My wife got this lovely piece of godspam from an acquaintance:

Quote:

Letter to the President

To add your name to the bottom, hit "forward message" and then add your name and then pass on. Thanks.

PLEASE SIGN THE PETITION BELOW AND PASS THIS ON UNTIL THERE ARE 500 NAMES, THEN SEND TO:

President@whitehouse.gov
mailto

resident@whitehouse.gov>

Dear President Bush:
Many of us were deeply touched to hear you recite a portion of Psalm 23 in your address to this great nation in the dark hours following the terrorists attacks. We were encouraged and comforted to know that we truly had a believer working with us and for us in our nation's highest office. We the people of America are requesting that you lift the prohibition of prayer in schools. As the pledge of our great country states, we are to be "One nation, under God." Please allow the prayers and petitions of our children in schools without the threat of punishment. Currently, adults and children in the schools are
prohibited from mentioning God unless, of course, His name is uttered as part of a curse or profanity. Madeline Murray O'Hare is dead. Let her legacy of atheism in our schools die with her!

Sincerely , The People of America

Mark 10:13-14 "People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these."
PETITION TO REINSTATE PRAYER IN
PUBLIC SCHOOLS

GRRRR. What dreck.

Darwin's Finch · 04-30-2002, 07:39 AM

They just don't get it, do they?

Godless Dave · 04-30-2002, 07:43 AM

You have two options:

Send the original sender the letter in <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000189" target="_blank">Secular Jeff's thread</a>.

Or send an email saying "Please do not use the internet to spread lies. Children are not forbidden from praying in school. Their right to pray is protected by the First Amendment. The President cannot repeal the Bill of Rights. Would you really want him to?"

Toto · 04-30-2002, 08:53 AM

I just like how UBB changed mailto (colon) President Bush to mail to (Razz) resident Bush, all on its own.

Coragyps · 04-30-2002, 09:36 AM

Toto:

Praise Jebus! It's a maracle!!

kingcrim99 · 05-01-2002, 07:29 PM

Of course, they see nothing presumptuous about signing this "Sincerely , The People of America."

gravitybow · 05-02-2002, 07:15 AM

Hey, Coragyps. This is a response I sent to an aunt who e-mailed me a similar prayer petition:

Quote:

Hello Aunt xxxx:

It has been a while since I have sent any proper greetings your way. Although I am always on the computer, doing research in one field or another, I rarely sit and compose many e-mails, even to immediate family. Often my box has one advertisement or another in it (as yours probably does), jokes sent my way, and notices from various mailing lists I subscribe to. Occasionally, I even get a petition sent my way. That is the occasion that has caused me to write this particular e-mail. I recently received the Prayer in Schools petition.

I will not be signing it or passing it on for two reasons:

Reason #1: If the purpose of the petition is to allow prayer in the public schools, then the purpose is redundant.

Prayer is already allowed in public schools. Even Pat Robertson’s ACLJ acknowledges this. It never went away. Students have many opportunities to pray during school hours on school grounds. They can pray in between classes, before the class convenes, during the lunch hour, before or after school, in the halls, in groups, silently or audibly, so long as it is not disruptive or coercive. If they wish, they can pray during class (usually silently, because it is usually not disruptive) before a test or other occasion the student feels needs prayer. Prayer drives such as See You At The Pole and bible groups such as Fellowship of Christian Athletes are thriving on public school campuses. Given the wealth of opportunities for students to pray at school, surely the Almighty hears those prayers given voluntarily, willingly, and earnestly.

Then again, if the meaning of the petition is to reinstate mandatory prayer, then the petition will not achieve that aim because "mandatory" or any other language that invokes the enforcing power of the state is absent from the petition. And then it would fail on sound Constitutional grounds.

Reason #2: The petition is not a valid petition.

There is no way to prove that the people on the list are who they say they are. Proper petitions have some way to verify the signatories. This is often accomplishes by having the signers put their verifiable addresses by their names. So what is to distinguish John Smith in Tennessee from John Smith in Oklahoma from John Smith in California from John Smith in Utah? How does someone verify that any real John Smith did indeed sign this petition? I could simply write John Smith on the line previous to my name and no one would be the wiser.

The petition is also invalid because individual names will appear thousands of times on the final submitted lists. You, for example, sent the list to eighteen people on your e-mail. Let’s say that only ten (because the math is easier to grasp) sign it. Now your name is duplicated on ten lists. Think about that. You are #70 on the list you sent me. If only ten on your list get only ten more to sign the list, your name will now appear on 100 versions of the petition. Then 1000. Then 10000. Not a legal petition. In practice, some will send the list to one or two or a handful or eighteen, as you have done. The unverifiable names that appear early on the petitions will be duplicated thousands of times in the process. And person #500 will be the only name guaranteed to appear once in all of the submitted petitions.

People should voice their opinions in matters that are important to them. Petitions are one way of doing this. But this one wasn’t thought out very well.

Your nephew,
(gravitybow)

Haven't heard from her since. Wonder why?

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04-30-2002, 07:39 AM	#2
Darwin's Finch Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 666	They just don't get it, do they?

04-30-2002, 07:43 AM	#3
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	You have two options: Send the original sender the letter in <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000189" target="_blank">Secular Jeff's thread</a>. Or send an email saying "Please do not use the internet to spread lies. Children are not forbidden from praying in school. Their right to pray is protected by the First Amendment. The President cannot repeal the Bill of Rights. Would you really want him to?"

04-30-2002, 08:53 AM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I just like how UBB changed mailto (colon) President Bush to mail to (Razz) resident Bush, all on its own.

04-30-2002, 09:36 AM	#5
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	Toto: Praise Jebus! It's a maracle!!

05-01-2002, 07:29 PM	#6
kingcrim99 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: WashDC area Posts: 25	Of course, they see nothing presumptuous about signing this "Sincerely , The People of America."

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