copernicus

Radorth, you are threatening us with an argument based on the No True Scotsman fallacy. Just because you don't like the way some christians behave, you deny that they are christians. In your own mind, this allows you to ignore counterevidence to your claims about christians.

Radorth

It's not a fallacy, and the logic used to show that it is a fallacy is laughably hypocritical. I highly recommend your cite.

At least we insist on some sort of evidence amongst ourselves. In your case, you probably agree that atheists are more honest by definition. Right?

(Speaking of blind faith).

Rad

Toto

Rad - I don't know of anyone who has said this. If you can't give a cite for it, posting it is a form of dishonest discourse - attributing falsely an easily demolished position to your opponent.

copernicus

Toto is correct. I certainly don't believe that atheists are any more or less honest than anyone else, and your attempt to put words in my mouth is another example of flawed logic. As for your gratuitous claim that "the logic used to show that it is a fallacy is laughably hypocritical", please explain why you think that. Are you really prepared to defend the claim that no true scotsman would ever put sugar on his porridge?

ybnormal

Witch hunts continue across America, Rad, while Cassie Bernall, your newest xian martyr is manufactured by the same xians who brought about her death. Unless you ALSO want to argue that it's only Atheist kids, pretending to be xians, who tease, taunt and bully the few kids who wear black clothing.

And Rad, your self-described xian school of little robots makes my entire point here... there's no one there to bully, since everyone there is xian, or at least pretending to be xian. And like I've said around here before, that's really ALL you folks want anyway... that everyone "appear" to be xian, just like you "appear" to be a xian. The best example being what you xians say to homosexuals... that y'all don't care what they do behind closed doors... just don't flaunt it in public. In other words, only "pretend" to "appear" to be xian, and we'll leave you alone. In other words, "just lie to us!" What a phony crock!

Your tactics here are but another microcosm of the tactics used by the larger Biblical America Movement itself. You mimic it, yet dance away from it, exactly like you mimic Barton, yet dance away from him. As an example of your mimicking microcosm...
Thru the sheer intimidation you've just admitted, you folks do force many folks, in controlled situations, to withhold the truth, then you come full circle and use what you've created as evidence for other trumped up arguments against others, for the express purpose of advancing your Movement.
Thus...
To be clear here, thru intimidation, you force honest folks to lie, then you dishonestly, use the fact that it occurs, as evidence against them and others. Circular reasoning, at its finest.

Same thing with how you folks are using poor little Cassie... you got her killed, now you're using her death to advance your completely dishonest claim, that only xians can prevent school violence. Circular reasoning again, at its finest.

And yes, Rad, it is truly Amazing how the Christian kids... behave, but it's even more amazing how you Christian adults behave.

And I love this one... doing a quick Google search to get the correct spelling of Cassie Bernall, one of the first hits was the page below...
On the original David Barton thread, I posted the Wallbuilders Dove Foundation page, which hands out those above-mentioned Dove Awards. For some reason tho, Barton's name has been stripped from the Foundation, altho many other xian sites have not been updated, so his lingering name remains associated with it on the Net.

Whether others want to see the intricately networked connections that mimic most all this Church/State/schools stuff, you Radorth, are clearly a Biblical America torch bearer for a huge Robotic Army of God. This is why I see you as the serious threat that you are, where many others are too quick to dismiss you and I both as flakes. I have your number, my friend... do you have mine yet?

Shake

Rad said:
I feel I must remind folks about the difference between a 'theory' and a 'Theory'
You might have a 'theory' (small 't') about why your team lost the football game, but things like the (big 'T') Theory of Evolution and the Theory of General Relativity are on a whole different level. The big-T 'Theories' have great scientific support and can make reliable predictions. Our "Law" of Gravity may turn out later to be "merely" a Theory once a GUT is discovered (GUT = grand unified Theory). I know I'm presenting this quickly and briefly, maybe I can get some backup here. But I've got to go very soon, so I can't elaborate as much as I'd like.

Point is, the big-t Theory is more like fact than just a small-t theory.

Radorth

I did not attribute it to you, certainly not intentionally. I have already attributed it to Yb, and that is exactly what he said, right Yb? The only one not being honest here is he, if he is following this thread.

If he denies it, I will track down the thread and post.

Rad

Radorth

Yb, fighting virtually alone in the great battle of the intellects vs some undefined Christian mob:

Forcing you to lie? What the hell are you babbling about?

Your posts are virtually undicipherable Yb, and of course this sad incident did not occur at a Christian school. So you are now saying the U.S is a Christian country and therefore these must have been Christians?

Kids are pretty much all narcissists, and there is not much difference between them, although I have met a few Christians who are wise beyond their years. Perhaps I shall meet an atheist kid some day who will surprise me, and who does not remind me of Freddy.

I've never met a kid able to put on airs for more than five minutes. That's what me and Jesus like about them.

Best example of what "you xians" do? Who exactly are "you xians"? We can only guess it is all those members of a great right wing conspiracy consisting of Moonies, Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics and LDS members about to unite under Ashcroft and take over the world. (Not that they can get abortion declared illegal)

And no we don't ask homosexuals to pretend they are not. We simply ask that they don't make out at Dodger games in front of our kids. Try to keep up with the news Yb. Even that is OK now.

Really? Like which one? This one?


Long lay the world in sin and error pining

Til he appeared and the soul felt it's worth

The thrill of hope, a weary world rejoices

For yonder breaks a new and glorious morn

(Chorus)

Truly he taught us to love one another

His law is love and his Gospel is truth

Chains shall he break

For the slave is our brother

And in his name all oppression shall cease


I'm sorry for what happened to that girl, but your "facts" come from a biased site written by one who makes totally unsupported assertions and apparently fills in blanks with assumptions. Her mom doesn't say they were screaming "Jesus loves you," nor does her diary. Why would they sing hymns? What hymns? How do we know they were Christians? Were they Catholics, Methodists, what? One thing we do agree on. It was not a Christian school- certainly not one like my daughter goes to.

Rad

Hedwig

Radorth,

I'm just a lurker here normally but I thought I'd tell you that the first time I heard about Tempest, it was through yahoo news. They mentioned the fact that she was taunted by other students with Christian hymns. I don't see why yahoo would be biased.

Just FYI.

Radorth

Here is the part about "Jesus loves you" from the "Detroit News" whoever that is.

'Jesus luvs u'

Tempest often spent hours in her bedroom writing poems and other reflections in the small notebook she kept beneath her bed. The notebook was a birthday gift from her mother. It had a picture of pop star Ricky Martin on the cover. Tempest, a tall, slim blond who got her name because she was born during a violent storm, wrote about typical youthful concerns: crushes on boys; her dog, a shar-pei named Buddy; trips to her grandmother's house. She wrote about family, calling her mother, "the best mom ever."

She also wrote about the pain she increasingly endured during school.

He said some things to me. It all made my skin boil. Afterward, my head ached.


Although Tempest had a few friends, many of her classmates had teased her constantly since elementary school. They teased her because she wore dark "Gothic" clothing to school. They teased her because she read books about Wicca, a pagan religion often associated with witchcraft. Her classmates often taunted her with Christian hymns.

Now people aren't chanting Jesus luvs u. They're singing it.

"Tempest was her own person, and the kids made fun of her a lot," said classmate Shayna Obiyan, 12.



(Rad) Now Yb, who is saying they were telling her Jesus loved her and taunting her with hymns, except the writer of this article? And who publishes the "Detroit News" exactly?

I think we should declare your "news story" complete bull unless you can show me one quote from anybody involved, or or even from her diary.

It's a marvel what "skeptics" will call a "fact." Yikes.

Rad