Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Smallberries · 11-03-2001, 11:09 AM

Oh, I forgot to mention that I am actually kreepykiepe using my hubby's login.

Jimmy Higgins · 11-03-2001, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Smallberries:
Also, it has a lot of pro-environment stuff wrapped up in it which I also like. those Confucians are so darn anthropocentric!

Damn anthropocentric Confucians!

Eudaimonist · 11-03-2001, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy Higgins:
Damn anthropocentric Confucians!

Confucianism is sounding better and better all the time.

Abolish Work · 11-05-2001, 12:50 PM

Best way I can think of comparing the two is the famous saying "A wise man is Confucian in good times, Buddhist in bad times, and Daoist in old age".

Eudaimonist · 11-05-2001, 01:00 PM

I can guess the implications underlying the first two, but why Taoist in old age?

carterk · 11-05-2001, 01:31 PM

For one thing, old age is the age of wisdom and "receptivity" which has special meanings in Taoism, because in receptivity lies the "the Way."

Also, there is an incredible tradition of questing for longevity, even imortality, by taoist sages and alchemists.

Did I summarize properly guys?

Hey, Eud. check out Chuang-tze for more on how anthropocentrism isn't all it is cracked up to be.

Eudaimonist · 11-05-2001, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kreepykiepe:
Hey, Eud. check out Chuang-tze for more on how anthropocentrism isn't all it is cracked up to be.

I may do that, though I'm a dyed-in-the-wool "anthropocentrist". Ethical systems (or ways of life) that attempt some perspective outside of humanity run the risk of having self-destructive implications if one is not very, very careful. I have no problem with being aware of how we may be dependent (or inter-dependent) with external life for our own well-being, as long as our own well-being is at the "center" of ethical concern.

Boshko · 11-07-2001, 05:03 PM

"I can guess the implications underlying the first two, but why Taoist in old age?"
Taoists have always placed an large emphasis on the ability to live long, there's all these myths about Taoists sages that lived to ridiculously old ages. This ties in with the Taoist belief that life is basically good, and something that one should want a lot of.

Am reading the Chuangtzu (sp?) now and it, especially the second chapter of the inner texts is making by brain hurt. I think its arguing for some kind of transcendental skepticism but its hard to tell...

DejaVudew · 11-08-2001, 03:54 PM

For starters, I have no knowledge of eastern philosophy/religion. I'm going to learn one of these days, and would really like to hear your suggestions as to where I might begin to learn. I'm going to be taking a class or two on this soon, hopefully, because I've been dying to learn.

But what I found curious here was...

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy Higgins:
One reason why I find so much wisdom in there is because there are no man made rules within it. The Torah, New Testament, Qu'ran all have arbitrary rules. One does not apply rules of the Tao te Ching. Rather one must live with the understanding of it.

Western philosophy ponders that there are rules you must abide by. Living means suffering, but you get rewarded in the end for your trials, if you obey whatever rules you had in your religion.

Eastern philosophy doesn't ponder much, or atleast Taoism in its good years didn't, about what wasn't, but what is. You live with a feeling of understanding through Taoism. You only think you know the rules with western religion. Western religion is a gamble, you do certain things, you suffer from them, but if all is right, you are rewarded. Taoism offers instant rewards and righteousness. It isn't a freepass to materialism, rather it is a freepass to understanding. The greatest of gifts a human could have. And Taoism does not limit this gift to men. It does not limit this gift to the Chinese. It does not limit this gift to humans. It is universal. Its almost like Metacrock's idealization of occum's razor, but not to Metacrock's benefit. Taoism has not arbitrary necessities, while every single worldly religion does. Its so cool to know this philosophy. It gives so many rewards.

Why is it that western religion/philosophy cannot be thought of in the same way that you think of eastern religion/philosophy? I've heard a few Christians and Jews speak of their beliefs in the same manner that you speak of Eastern philosophy. Just curious as to what the delineation between it all is. You know, "How is western philosophy arbitrary and eastern not? How is it that western religion cannot lead to understanding while easter religion can?" and so forth.

Boshko · 11-10-2001, 11:52 PM

DejaVudew: I don't think that eastern philosophy is necessary superior/more interesting/less rule based etc. than western philosophy. For example, I find Buddhism, especially the concept of life being inherently a bad thing, as extremally distasteful and I don't really see how it attracts so many people. Confucianism is chock full of authoritarian/patriarchical arbirary rules and is just as bad in its own way.

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11-03-2001, 11:09 AM	#11
Smallberries Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Western Hemisphere Posts: 17	Oh, I forgot to mention that I am actually kreepykiepe using my hubby's login.

11-05-2001, 12:50 PM	#14
Abolish Work Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 169	Best way I can think of comparing the two is the famous saying "A wise man is Confucian in good times, Buddhist in bad times, and Daoist in old age".

11-05-2001, 01:00 PM	#15
Eudaimonist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 3,159	I can guess the implications underlying the first two, but why Taoist in old age?

11-05-2001, 01:31 PM	#16
carterk Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 93	For one thing, old age is the age of wisdom and "receptivity" which has special meanings in Taoism, because in receptivity lies the "the Way." Also, there is an incredible tradition of questing for longevity, even imortality, by taoist sages and alchemists. Did I summarize properly guys? Hey, Eud. check out Chuang-tze for more on how anthropocentrism isn't all it is cracked up to be.

11-07-2001, 05:03 PM	#18
Boshko Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Wesleyan University Posts: 361	"I can guess the implications underlying the first two, but why Taoist in old age?" Taoists have always placed an large emphasis on the ability to live long, there's all these myths about Taoists sages that lived to ridiculously old ages. This ties in with the Taoist belief that life is basically good, and something that one should want a lot of. Am reading the Chuangtzu (sp?) now and it, especially the second chapter of the inner texts is making by brain hurt. I think its arguing for some kind of transcendental skepticism but its hard to tell...

11-10-2001, 11:52 PM	#20
Boshko Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Wesleyan University Posts: 361	DejaVudew: I don't think that eastern philosophy is necessary superior/more interesting/less rule based etc. than western philosophy. For example, I find Buddhism, especially the concept of life being inherently a bad thing, as extremally distasteful and I don't really see how it attracts so many people. Confucianism is chock full of authoritarian/patriarchical arbirary rules and is just as bad in its own way.

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