Freethought & Rationalism Archive

I'm With Stupid · 02-13-2002, 05:07 PM

Pick on Christians because it's easy, fun, and they beg for it. They need it to exist.

Also, please learn to use your handy-dandy enter key.

Thank you, drive through.

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: The Unholy ]

lpetrich · 02-13-2002, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Deputy42:
1) it is an unpopular viewpoint, but america was founded by christians essentially for christians. anyone who studies the writings of our founding fathers especially jefferson will find that aside from the bible, the writings of john locke are of paramount importance.

I wonder if Deputy42 has ever studied John Locke's works.

Our Constitution was not designed on biblical principles, because if it had been, it would specify some combination of absolute monarchy and theocracy, something like the likes of Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the Taliban.

There is nothing in the Bible on electing leaders for short terms, there is nothing on committees of elected citizens, there is nothing even remotely resembling the Bill of Rights, etc. I wonder where Deputy42 thinks the Senate got its name from.

Quote:

Deputy42:
2) i think you will find evangelism is not an exclusive christian ethic. ...

So what? Christian and Muslim evangelists are the most obnoxious ones by far.

Quote:

Deputy42:
4)the earliest parts of the bible were written many thousands of years ago. were one to take a survey of the writings of cultures in that time period, he would find many of the readings archaic. the mystery is that although much has changed around us, little about us has changed.

I don't see what's so special about the Bible -- it's very clear that it describes a society very different from ours.

Deputy42 · 02-13-2002, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich:


I don't see what's so special about the Bible -- it's very clear that it describes a society very different from ours.

of course the constitution is not solely based on the bible. the proclamation that all men are created equal is not backed up by the bible. i'm merely pointing out the founding fathers were christians.

i havent studied locke intensely yet he was the first to move from scholasticsm and merge decartes and christ.

to say that the bible is archaic is superflous because much of it was written 4000 years ago. well to believe in christ you have to believe the jews are gods chosen people, the ot gives background. nt seems to be where its at.

Deputy42 · 02-13-2002, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Unholy:
Pick on Christians because it's easy, fun, and they beg for it. They need it to exist.

Also, please learn to use your handy-dandy enter key.

Thank you, drive through.

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: The Unholy ]

finally an honest answer

#1 supersized with coke, that'll be 5.08, thankyou

TollHouse · 02-13-2002, 05:47 PM

Quote:

finally an honest answer #1 supersized with coke, that'll be 5.08, thankyou

The other answers were honest despite the fact they weren't the answers you were looking for.

Most of us have read the bible (and I dare say a great deal more than many professing believers have). We simply found it every bit as lacking as any other religious text that you have choosen to disregard.

Some friendly advice: Your posts are very hard on the eyes. If you paragraph them better you are likely to get more responses.

BTW, welcome to the boards.

Deputy42 · 02-13-2002, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by waxm:
[
Wax- One problem is that many of us have read the Bible!
It is an easy book to read and understand, a "Bible study" may be required for an idiot that can not follow simple text, but it is much more effective at pretending the script says something that it does not.
This can be frustrating for an intelligent person who can think for themselves.
the bible i am reading now is over 2000 pages in length. the stories may seem simplistic yet i question your assertion that it is easy to comprehend and understand in its entirety without study.
As for why Christianity is "picked on", there are a number of reasons for this.

1: For the most part, We have not had Muslims come to our door and shove their pamphlets in our face, only "Christians" have done this so far.
2: Our daily life has not been forced to undergo referances to Allah, yet "God" is everywhere.
Our government declares his presence at every meeting, our money claims that we actively praise him, and for the most part, our neighbors and family members shove him in our face.
3: Christians claim that all of mankind belong to a family, yet, some of those family members will be punished and hated as a reward for membership in this great brotherhood.
Christians claim a close relationship with a loving father, then claim that same father will caste us into hell for an eternity of pain and suffering, simply because he has refused to show himself to us!
if i have you close your eyes and then tell you there is a beautiful flower in front of you, is it my fault you don't see the flower if you choose to keep your eyes closed?
So why do many of us have a problem with Christianity? Hmmm....I guess in one way, there may be some jealousy involved, "Why can I not see God if he/she can?"

But in a larger sense, it is anger. We see one aspect in our associates lives where they are actively encouraged to believe the unsupportable, and we are told to do the same!
As I said, many of us have read the Bible, a number of times, often in desperation because we have seriously wanted to find the truth.
The truth is right there in plain language:

anger, while a natural emotion isn't usually viewed as being the best human emotion nor is it beneficial in most cases. anger leads to vengeance and reprisals.
Four different stories of Jesus' supposed resurrection, four stories that can not be true, because they can not be describing the same singular incident.Matthew 28:1-9, Mark 16:1-10, Luke 24:1-9, John 20:1-18

no two people see the same event. this is most clearly evidenced by the shocking number of court cases in america. often times upon questioning, different people seeing the same event will have vastly different testimony. we inevitably sully any event with our own consciousness, its impossible not to. the mere fact that there are different accounts of the same event hardly prove that event did not occur.
We read how Jesus was born of a virgin named Mary, yet the only person who could have relayed this story (Mary herself), does not even inform her other four sons or daughters, according to Biblical scripture!Matthew 13:54-58
since you have read this story, i assume you realize this story isn't about who mary told about her conception. everyone knew jesus, they didn't not respect him or see him as the messiah. everyone knows this feeling after coming home from college and mom and dad and everyone around treat you like a 5 year old. this goes back to each one of us putting our own spin on events, closer we are, the more the spin it seems. but you knew this already.

We read how Jesus is not identified by name (Jesus as a name, was as common as John is today), the last name of his father is never given in scripture so that he can be researched as a historical person, so that claims can be cross referenced.

i don't know

We read how Jesus claimed that the end would come in the generation that he was talking to, yet many generations have passed to prove beyond a doubt that he was wrong!Matthew 16:28

i agree this scripture is freaky. i wont insult your intellect, i don't know what these mean. although i read the bible, i am by no means a scholar as you are.....its why i started this thread

We read how John the baptist supported the concept that Jesus was the son of God, and baptised him.
Yet we then read that John sent his servents from prison (a prison that he never got out of alive, so we know that he supposedly baptised Jesus before his imprisonment) to ask Jesus if he was the one, as if he had never met him and heard God declare the fact!
Matthew 3:14-17, 11:2-3

We read how Saul/Paul, who never met Jesus while he was alive, yet still managed to instill most of the dogma in modern Christianity, hated women and told them to keep their mouths shut in church!I Corinthians 14:34-35

im sure you realize women the world over were considered subordinate 2000 years ago. this passage shoots to the heart of the roles of men and women. paul instructs women to ask their husbands instead of speaking out in church not because paul was a mysogenist, but because asking for spiritual advice from other men publicly would speak ill of the guidance and knowledge of the women's husband. of course you know that men are called to be the leaders by bible, not only for themselves but for their families. it would be akin to saying your hubby wasn't good in bed.

again i don't profess to be a scholar, you are so i wait for your teachings in this matter

So again, we have read the Bible, you however, at least apparently, have not![/QB]

deank · 02-13-2002, 06:43 PM

Edited because I do not read posts correctly at this hour...

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: deank ]

Wyrdsmyth · 02-13-2002, 06:52 PM

Bash has a very negative connotation, as in bullying of some sort.

"Look I have a Christian cornered, let's teach him a lesson," the big mean atheist says to his thuggish atheist friends, as some poor, gangly kid wearing a cross huddles nervously at the a dead end of an alley.

That's just silly. Those poor, picked-on, bashed Christians... who in the U.S. only outnumber us atheists by at least 4 to 1.

Christians in general are adversarial, and they don't generally have a live and let live attitude. Historically, they haven't been content to peacefully co-exist with Jews, worshippers of Odin, Celtic druids, Muslims, etc. They WANT to witness their faith to other people, and they WANT to discuss it with godless heathens like us on this board. This is OUR website, and it is amazing to think anyone could say we are bashing Christians if they willingly come in here of their own accord, want to argue, and find that we disagree with them.

TollHouse · 02-13-2002, 07:09 PM

Quote:

This is OUR website, and it is amazing to think anyone could say we are bashing Christians if they willingly come in here of their own accord, want to argue, and find that we disagree with them.

Very well put!

Undercurrent · 02-13-2002, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deputy42:


the proclamation that all men are created equal is not backed up by the bible.

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!!!!

m.

02-13-2002, 05:07 PM	#11
I'm With Stupid Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Void Posts: 51	Pick on Christians because it's easy, fun, and they beg for it. They need it to exist. Also, please learn to use your handy-dandy enter key. Thank you, drive through. [ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: The Unholy ]</p>

02-13-2002, 06:43 PM	#17
deank Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: St. Simons Island, GA, USA Posts: 87	Edited because I do not read posts correctly at this hour... [ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: deank ]</p>

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02-13-2002, 06:52 PM	#18
Wyrdsmyth Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Sarver, PA, USA Posts: 920	Bash has a very negative connotation, as in bullying of some sort. "Look I have a Christian cornered, let's teach him a lesson," the big mean atheist says to his thuggish atheist friends, as some poor, gangly kid wearing a cross huddles nervously at the a dead end of an alley. That's just silly. Those poor, picked-on, bashed Christians... who in the U.S. only outnumber us atheists by at least 4 to 1. Christians in general are adversarial, and they don't generally have a live and let live attitude. Historically, they haven't been content to peacefully co-exist with Jews, worshippers of Odin, Celtic druids, Muslims, etc. They WANT to witness their faith to other people, and they WANT to discuss it with godless heathens like us on this board. This is OUR website, and it is amazing to think anyone could say we are bashing Christians if they willingly come in here of their own accord, want to argue, and find that we disagree with them.

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