Dianna

Perry: What we believe is that my mom couldn't tell the difference between what was from God and what was from the Devil. Therefore, the Devil took advantage and tried to make us all scared. This is when I started seeing weird stuff.

Ok, you're telling us that you and your family experienced a hightened sense of evil, the Devil had invaded your home, taken advantage of your mother's confusion....and then...

Perry: To keep the house free of demons we had all the radios in the house playing christion music (which didn't work).

Didn't work, how? How do you know it didn't work?

What you describe is a situation in which I would expect you to begin to see and hear things that would entertain your fears and beliefs. You didn't need drugs, you had religion.

Perry: The radios had no remote, just old fashioned manual knobs. Ever so often they'd slowly move to non-christion stations.

Did you see it happen?
Wouldn't matter. You were so high on the experience anything could have actually happened and you'd perceive it to be supernatural.

The rest of the story is also unsurprising. You've been caught and everything you see and hear from now on will only seem to confirm for you what you want to believe.

I do wonder, though, that you said these things happened at this particular weird time in your life (and I agree, you and your family were on one weird trip). Does that mean they've subsided now that you're out of the Pentecostal mode?

Dianna

Perry H

I always laugh at how pissed off aetheists get when a theist won't become an aetheist. Just like when a theist get's pissed when an aetheist won't become a theist. In my world, I give a shit less what you are. Be cool to me and I'll be cool to you. Anyways,....

Dianna: Ok, you're telling us that you and your family experienced a hightened sense of evil, the Devil had invaded your home, taken advantage of your mother's confusion....and then...

When we realized they didn't have the power over us like they made us think, they went away. I believe evil only has as much power as you give it. You're probably going to say that it was some kind of byproduct of our imagination, but we never wanted the evil in our home. Not sure how we could have made something happen that we didn't expect.

Dianna: To keep the house free of demons we had all the radios in the house playing christion music (which didn't work). Didn't work, how? How do you know it didn't work?

It didn't work because the evil still messed with us. What made the evil go away is when we realized they don't have power over us.

Dianna: What you describe is a situation in which I would expect you to begin to see and hear things that would entertain your fears and beliefs. You didn't need drugs, you had religion.

Those fears I never had until it happened. I didn't even know those things could possibly happen. I don't even consider them fears. More like annoying events.

Dianna: The radios had no remote, just old fashioned manual knobs. Ever so often they'd slowly move to non-christion stations. Did you see it happen? Wouldn't matter. You were so high on the experience anything could have actually happened and you'd perceive it to be supernatural.

Yes I did see it. Does that piss you off that it confirmed MY belief, he he he?

Dianna: The rest of the story is also unsurprising. You've been caught and everything you see and hear from now on will only seem to confirm for you what you want to believe.

Yes, I agree with you 100%. If only I could be an aetheist. My life would be so much better then. I don't think you understand. I don't believe in God out of fear, but out of love. If it happens there isn't a god I'd have no regrets with this life.

Dianna: I do wonder, though, that you said these things happened at this particular weird time in your life (and I agree, you and your family were on one weird trip). Does that mean they've subsided now that you're out of the Pentecostal mode?

We are out of the penecostal church and don't go to church anymore. We're still christions though. Independant christians? There's a lot of manmade control, politics, rules, cliques etc etc in many churches that we tend to stay away from organized churches. Nothing against those that go to them though.

Dianna

Dianna (previous) id you see it happen? Wouldn't matter. You were so high on the experience anything could have actually happened and you'd perceive it to be supernatural.

Perry: Yes I did see it. Does that piss you off that it confirmed MY belief, he he he?

I'm not angry. I am not in this discussion to make you an atheist, that would be silly. Your claiming to have actually watched the radio dial move in no way confirms the validity of your belief. Sure, it confirms that you believe that evil spirits had invaded your home and were changing the radio station. But, as I said, whatever actually may have happened can't be known. You were under a spell--the spell of fundamentalism. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying that the fact that you and your family were in a state of alert with regard to evil spirits has an impact on the credibility of your witness.

Dianna (previous): The rest of the story is also unsurprising. You've been caught and everything you see and hear from now on will only seem to confirm for you what you want to believe.

Perry: Yes, I agree with you 100%. If only I could be an aetheist. My life would be so much better then. I don't think you understand. I don't believe in God out of fear, but out of love. If it happens there isn't a god I'd have no regrets with this life.

I never said that you believed in a god out of fear. I was talking about a situation in your home in which you and your family believed that evil spirits had power over you.

Note that you said that as soon as you were convinced that the spirits had no power over you, they stopped messing with you. That is a very big clue that it was all in your head. Sorry to say so.

Dianna.

Perry H

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Yeah, it would make sense to most that this was out of my head. It's one of those things you have to experience for yourself to understand what it's like. I guess that comes to one of two conclusions. Either, scientists barely tapped into the brains potential or they know nothing about a god they think doesn't exist.

what are your thoughts on <a href="http://www.near-death.com" target="_blank">www.near-death.com</a> ?

Perry

Amos

Agreed Dianna, it is all in our head. The beauty of this is that it is possible to use it to your advantage . . . which in turn is why it can be true that there is no sickness or pain in heaven. Next question is, why are we so health conscious these days if sickness is also in our head?

Amos

Amos

Correct, uttering nonsense is glossolalia and is never rational or irrational.

Ad you are correct that reason is not induced at the adamsapple because we can also whisper in tongues, can't we? Or even think, in tongues.

I think you've been wathching Half-Baked to long to miss the point.

Perry H

actually I disagree...

If I hear a dog I don't see bark outside my house, is it in "my head" as well? If I have the power to yell outside to go away without actually seeing the dog, is it all in my mind? If I was a mental patient possibly, if I was normal probably not.

Just because you don't see something it doesn't meant it doesn't exist. Remember when people thought the earth was just made of earth, fire, water, and air? they didn't believe in elemements, compounds, etc. Have you ever seen them? Have you ever seen an alien? I'm sure most of you believe they exist. Remember when people wanted to hang (forgot his name) when he told people that saturn had "ears" which ended up being rings?

What is more ridiculous, a atom that came from nowhere or a god that came from nowhere? both theories are ridiculous if you think about it.
So far nobody has been able to prove a god does exist or doesn't exist. So it all depends on IF you want a god or not. Maybe that's why God doesn't expose himself, only leaves possiblities explained by science or spirit? to see what kind of world you prefer.

Perry

YHWH666

"Have you ever seen an alien? I'm sure most of you believe they exist."

if your refering to alien visitors who have nothing better to do than to fly light years across hyperspace, abduct illiterate rednecks , put things up their butts, and then fly away whithout leaving any evidence of it ever happining. or really unimpressive videos of little dots flying around (or what would be REALLY impressive videos if they where not obvious hoaxes).
then no i do not believe in such things. i think most people here (including the theists) would agree.

Are you reffering to life outside the solar system that has NOT contacted this earth? MAYBE but MAYBE we're unique. hard to speculate on the likelyhood of life else where in the universe occuring. we only have one sample of it ever occuring-- and your standing on it.

"What is more ridiculous, a atom that came from nowhere or a god that came from nowhere? both theories are ridiculous if you think about it.
So far nobody has been able to prove a god does exist or doesn't exist. So it all depends on IF you want a god or not. Maybe that's why God doesn't expose himself, only leaves possiblities explained by science or spirit? to see what kind of world you prefer."

no. you apply occam's razor find that metaphysical naturalisim is a more reasonable theory. i think it's pretty obvious most people would prefer a universe that had magic and fairy tales and what not, otherwise they would have never invented religion and kept it going all these years

--note when people argue against you here they are not angry or trying to convert you, they are merely debating with you. it's not a personal assault, we don't have a grudge against you or anything, it's just friendly conjecture.

Dianna

Perry: Yeah, it would make sense to most that this was out of my head.

I want to be sure that you don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that you made it up. I'm saying that we interpret events subjectively and when we are in emotionally heightened states, we can't trust our interpretations. I don't trust yours.

And I find your situation mundane. If someone witnessed someone's long-ago amputated leg grow back, or a dead and embalmed person climb out of the box, then we might have something of substance to point to.

Perry: It's one of those things you have to experience for yourself to understand what it's like.

Right, but see, we're different kinds of people you and I. Let's say that I find myself in a frightening situation--I'm at home alone on a dark and stormy night, and I believe there is someone trying to get into my house. I even hear a muffled voice outside, perhaps calling my name or telling me to open the door. When the police arrive, we find that the noises I thought were someone trying to get in, were actually a fallen tree branch butting up against the house in the wind. I can assume one of two things: One, there was someone trying to get in my house and talking to me, regardless of the evidence that there was not. Or two, I was very frightened and allowed that to skew my interpretation of events. No matter how real the voice sounded, I would choose the latter because that's the kind of person I am.

If I woke up one morning and was absolutely sure I'd been abducted by aliens who inserted something in my body, my first assumption would be that it was a startlingly real dream.

Perry: I guess that comes to one of two conclusions. Either, scientists barely tapped into the brains potential or they know nothing about a god they think doesn't exist.

Are these conclusions mutually exclusive? What brain potential do you mean? Are you saying your brain turned the nob? Are you saying that either the brain does these god-like things or there is a god?

Science has a lot of evidence of paranoia, mass paranoia, hallucination and mass hallucination. Science knows very well what the mind is capable of.

All god has to do is make itself known.

Perry: what are your thoughts on <a href="http://www.near-death.com" target="_blank">www.near-death.com</a> ?

I think that when the brain is deprived of oxygen for certain periods of time all sorts of odd impressions are perceived by the person involved. It's how we interpret those, again, that is the question. Are they dreams? Or are they real? I think they are most likely dreams.

Dianna.

ju'iblex

Ahhh, the many faces of a troll.

i find it very interesting Perry how you seem to be interested in a logical, calm rational discussion on this board, and yet all you seem to want to do on the RR&P board is tell "aetheists" how stupid they are.

and compare this perry to :

im not sure i like these "christions"