Buffman

Perhaps folks don't like atheists because they always seem to be against, never for, things. (Just teasing so CaptainDave will feel a little better.)

Why not take your proposal to the Misc. Forum and see how much of a beating it takes there? They may have a real ball with it. Personally, I rather thought that it could have some merit if one of the National Atheist organizations adopted and posted some sort of Code. Just type Code of Conduct in a GOOGLE search and look at the results. Every organization seems to have one. Look at the rules/code for these various forums. I believe you are quite correct when you state that many people don't think that atheists live by any rules/codes/principles/morals other than the ones that give them the greatest pleasures. Atheists are hedonists to most devout Christians.

GaryP

Captain Dave--

I think it's a good idea. I would refer you to Toto's link to the Humanist Manifesto.

That group is already organized and it has been endorsed by many well known scientists, educators and philosophers. It is rather wordy though.

Something like what you are suggesting would be nice to have when the 10C's pop up in a community. We could ask that ours get equal treatment. I think I read a story about a guy asking for the 7 aphorisms (sp) to be displayed beside his local commandments.

Toto

Off to Misc Religious

Defiant Heretic

While Christianity does have a myriad of rules and regulations, I defy you to find one Christian who actually follows them all. Atheists in general may not have an established code of conduct, but at least we don't hypocritically spout rhetoric about rules we don't follow ourselves.

d'naturalist

I think it's more a case of just promoting the idea of good manners & etiquette, but I came across this page you might find interesting:

<a href="http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/atheism/90068" target="_blank">http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/atheism/90068</a>

ybnormal

Sorry, but our biggest liability is simply that we are not members of their tribe... thus, we are their targets, and always will be targets... it is indeed, a "conflict" to them... they expect to win... being nice to this enemy is not gonna change their centuries old agenda...

It matters not what hateful, immoral, elitest dickheads we are... one can be all those things and still be a xian... most xians are all those things IMO anyway... therefore, any hateful, immoral, elitest dickhead can easily be a xian... they may counsel and pray on him more, but they certainly won't kick him out for just being a dickhead, so long as he professes himself to be one of them...


Few people care about our rights or our feelings.

Exactly... these xians certainly don't care about your rights... your Constitutional Rights are at best, secondary to these nice xians... and if you really think they care about your "feelings", then I suggest you start listening to them more carefully...

If you really think you'll ever get anywhere with these pushy rude folks, by being nicer to them, then I must suggest that you are mistaken...

Niceness is about the ONLY tool they have...

Remember "Act Up"? That's where I'd go with any behavior changes... point being, you haven't even gotten their attention yet...


IMO, there are really only 2 places to fight this:

As 4th Generation Atheist says:
As to the others, it might be better to just accept that they're not our friends and endeavor to keep them from gaining too much political power---which we can do by building a suitable coalition with those who don't mind us.

Yes... these folks are not your friends... never will be, until you change... and as for 4th's main point, I continue to be amazed that too many folks here, don't seem to realize that xians have already gained "too much political power"... it's kinda like, too many folks ain't noticed that yet... too focused on the fundies maybe... calling them "nuts"...

At least call them "powerful, influential nuts" who turn out the vote, against much of what you stand for...

That's one... the vote... (I like that "building a suitable coalition" idea)

The other of course, is the courts...
If in the end, the ?wall of separation, and, the idea that we are ?all created equal, both totally fail us in the courts, then all is pretty much lost anyway...

And the xian political machine is working 24/7, to insure that both of these Constitutional ideas fail us, ASAP... Victory at all costs, CaptainDave, is their Code of Behavior... is that nice?

We tend to call them "sheep", so I suggest that their niceness is the "sheep in wolves clothing".

Buffman

Defiant Heretic

Do atheists have any personal and social values by which they guide their words and actions? If so, what are they...after the Golden Rule...unless that's all one believes is necessary to conduct a positive, productive and meaningful life? (The GR isn't a viable reference for all circumstances that we may face in life or approaching death.)

The point isn't what religionists do or don't do regarding their "stated/written" values. It is what code(s) atheists use to conduct their own lives. IMHO, atheists take values (their Code of Conduct) from many other sources to help them participate successfully, safely, positively and productively within a theist, or any, majority. When you stop and give it serious consideration, that's exactly what the theists have been doing for centuries. Unfortunately, many of them seem to lack the knowledge, self-discipline, strength of character and/or integrity to practice their codes without the supernatural promise of reward or the threat of punishment. That is one of the true strengths of the freethinker/non-theist. He/she is mature enough, responsible enough, to personally accept the ultimate reward/punishment (life-death) for their words and actions, or lack thereof.

I suspect that CaptainDave is attempting to determine if atheists have a set of values to which they can all subscribe...if not necessarily always attain. That could be why he selected a "Code of Conduct" as the format rather than moral/ethical imperatives...although there may be little difference in the final analysis. That's all the various authors of the Bible (and the other religious sacred works) did. They listed those things that worked and those that didn't...and managed to sell the false belief in the ultimate big stick/carrot...(punishment/reward)...eternal life metered out or denied by Super Daddy.

MadMordigan

The Humanist Manifesto:

FOURTEENTH: The humanists are firmly convinced that existing acquisitive and profit-motivated society has shown itself to be inadequate and that a radical change in methods, controls, and motives must be instituted. A socialized and cooperative economic order must be established to the end that the equitable distribution of the means of life be possible.

fuck that noise.

Toto

We know more now.

That was in the Humanist Manifesto I, written in the 30's, when capitalism seemed evil and doomed, and all moral people were socialists of one sort or another. HM II has this:

TENTH: Humane societies should evaluate economic systems not by rhetoric or ideology, but by whether or not they increase economic well-being for all individuals and groups, minimize poverty and hardship, increase the sum of human satisfaction, and enhance the quality of life. Hence the door is open to alternative economic systems. We need to democratize the economy and judge it by its responsiveness to human needs, testing results in terms of the common good.

Defiant Heretic

The problem with establishing a moral code for atheists is that the only thing we all have in common is a lack of religious belief. I have a moral code that I try to follow, but I don't think its right to try and establish a moral code that is attributed to all atheists, as not all atheists may agree with it.
It would be best to create another label (such as humanism) for those who subscribe to whatever moral code we establish. That way, if an atheist doesn't agree with it, they won't be associated with it.