Freethought & Rationalism Archive

CaptainDave · 08-15-2002, 01:55 PM

I'm not sure how feasable this is, but I've been thinking that it might be helpful to have a non-binding (obviously) code of conduct for atheists. This would have to be something most of us could agree on and endorse. The idea is to have it posted on as many atheist/humanist/free-thinkers websites as possible.

We have had a long struggle for acceptance. It appears that that struggle is about to escalate into a full-blown cultural war. It won't be a war of guns and missiles (hopefully) but one of words. Our biggest liability in such a conflict is that we are generally perceived as a bunch of hateful, immoral, elitest dickheads. Few people care about our rights or our feelings. The fundy media machine is partly to blame for this but we have to shoulder a significant load of the blame ourselves.

We have been isolated, persecuted, insulted and ignored for a long time. We're frustrated and defensive. Some of us hide in a closet. Others come down hard on those who challenge them on their atheism. Few leave a good impression. I think this is particularly true of young people and/or people who have recently embraced atheism. Striking out against all believers is the natural first impulse.

I think we need a guide on atheist behavior in the interest of establishing good public relations. We'll never be accepted as long as most people don't like us.

Thoughts on this?

Toto · 08-15-2002, 02:01 PM

Are you thinking of something like <a href="http://www.jcn.com/manifestos.html" target="_blank">the Humanist Manifesto</a>?

I think this might do better in another Forum, since it isn't really church state. Any suggestions?

pz · 08-15-2002, 02:11 PM

I think that trying to find a common code for a group of diverse people who share only a disbelief in a load of cosmic hooey is a foredoomed effort.

Besides, there are civil christians, and christians who are jerks; there are civil atheists, and atheists who are jerks. It's obvious that there is no linkage between religious belief and propriety. Trying to impose one doesn't seem to me to be an honest reflection of reality, and isn't reality the one thing we're supposed to be about?

Buffman · 08-15-2002, 02:44 PM

This isn't the appropriate forum for this discussion, but all the same, here are two potential lists that might be utilized as the foundation for such a project/undertaking.

<a href="http://www.billpalmer.com/conduct.htm" target="_blank">http://www.billpalmer.com/conduct.htm</a>

A Modern Code of Conduct for Students

I am a human being. I am not a victim. I accept responsibility for my actions. I will accept any reward due me. I will take any punishment that I deserve.
Nobody owes me anything, just because I am here.
I am in school to learn, so I can become a productive member of society.
I will become as well educated as I possibly can.
I will not interfere with the education of others.
I will not destroy the property, tangible or intangible, of others.
I will not destroy the life of another human being.
I will not take the property, tangible or intangible, of others.
I will not lie to protect myself.
I will not intentionally damage the reputation, self-esteem, or honor of others.
I will conduct myself with honor and dignity.
I will respect myself.
I will respect others.
I will not use language in public that will inflame others to violent action.
I will respect my elders. They have been through this before. They survived. Maybe they can help me to do so, also.
will set an example for those around me, especially those younger than I am, so they will know how to behave.

<a href="http://media.gn.apc.org/nujcode.html" target="_blank">http://media.gn.apc.org/nujcode.html</a>

(Substitute Atheist for Journalist)

CaptainDave · 08-15-2002, 02:49 PM

Toto, Pz,

I'm not talking about a code of belief. I've always thought that that is useless. How can you impose a beleif in someone? I'm talking about a code of BEHAVIOR.

A BIG part of our problem in gaining acceptance is our image. People don't like us. You can point out that the pledge excludes atheists as Americans. "Who cares?" the masses respond. "Atheists are bad people."

The constitution protects us in principle only. That protection is powerful but also vulnerable. There is a movement for a constitutional amendment to sheild the language in the pledge and our (illegal) national motto from judicial action. This movement could not possibly succeed if we had a positive image. People wouldn't stand for it.

But people don't like us. I think we need to change this if we expect to continue to enjoy constitutional protection.

RichardMorey · 08-15-2002, 02:55 PM

I think that between logic, the law, and common decency we have a good enough guide.

4th Generation Atheist · 08-15-2002, 03:31 PM

I suspect that in order to "make those people like us", our code of conduct would have to include elements that many of us would find despicable, such as rules against homosexuality, abortion, and women's rights. Because most of the people who really hate atheists hate us because many of us disagree with them on these issues, we wouldn't win their friendship unless we could "prove" that a draconian code of conduct like that can be arrived at w/o a God---a point which I doubt we could convince them of anyway.

Most people who are middle-of-the-road on these topics don't mind atheists anyway. As to the others, it might be better to just accept that they're not our friends and endeavor to keep them from gaining too much political power---which we can do by building a suitable coalition with those who don't mind us.

CaptainDave · 08-15-2002, 03:43 PM

So much for that idea. Thank's everybody for your input.

4th Generation Atheist · 08-15-2002, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaptainDave:
<strong>So much for that idea. Thank's everybody for your input.</strong>

Ah, well, I didn't have much of a career as a cat-herd either...

CaptainDave · 08-15-2002, 04:00 PM

I'll try butterflies next. I'm a glutton for punishment. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

08-15-2002, 01:55 PM	#1
CaptainDave Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 119	Atheist Code of Conduct? I'm not sure how feasable this is, but I've been thinking that it might be helpful to have a non-binding (obviously) code of conduct for atheists. This would have to be something most of us could agree on and endorse. The idea is to have it posted on as many atheist/humanist/free-thinkers websites as possible. We have had a long struggle for acceptance. It appears that that struggle is about to escalate into a full-blown cultural war. It won't be a war of guns and missiles (hopefully) but one of words. Our biggest liability in such a conflict is that we are generally perceived as a bunch of hateful, immoral, elitest dickheads. Few people care about our rights or our feelings. The fundy media machine is partly to blame for this but we have to shoulder a significant load of the blame ourselves. We have been isolated, persecuted, insulted and ignored for a long time. We're frustrated and defensive. Some of us hide in a closet. Others come down hard on those who challenge them on their atheism. Few leave a good impression. I think this is particularly true of young people and/or people who have recently embraced atheism. Striking out against all believers is the natural first impulse. I think we need a guide on atheist behavior in the interest of establishing good public relations. We'll never be accepted as long as most people don't like us. Thoughts on this?

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08-15-2002, 02:01 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Are you thinking of something like <a href="http://www.jcn.com/manifestos.html" target="_blank">the Humanist Manifesto</a>? I think this might do better in another Forum, since it isn't really church state. Any suggestions?

08-15-2002, 02:11 PM	#3
pz Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Morris, MN Posts: 3,341	I think that trying to find a common code for a group of diverse people who share only a disbelief in a load of cosmic hooey is a foredoomed effort. Besides, there are civil christians, and christians who are jerks; there are civil atheists, and atheists who are jerks. It's obvious that there is no linkage between religious belief and propriety. Trying to impose one doesn't seem to me to be an honest reflection of reality, and isn't reality the one thing we're supposed to be about?

08-15-2002, 02:44 PM	#4
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	This isn't the appropriate forum for this discussion, but all the same, here are two potential lists that might be utilized as the foundation for such a project/undertaking. <a href="http://www.billpalmer.com/conduct.htm" target="_blank">http://www.billpalmer.com/conduct.htm</a> A Modern Code of Conduct for Students I am a human being. I am not a victim. I accept responsibility for my actions. I will accept any reward due me. I will take any punishment that I deserve. Nobody owes me anything, just because I am here. I am in school to learn, so I can become a productive member of society. I will become as well educated as I possibly can. I will not interfere with the education of others. I will not destroy the property, tangible or intangible, of others. I will not destroy the life of another human being. I will not take the property, tangible or intangible, of others. I will not lie to protect myself. I will not intentionally damage the reputation, self-esteem, or honor of others. I will conduct myself with honor and dignity. I will respect myself. I will respect others. I will not use language in public that will inflame others to violent action. I will respect my elders. They have been through this before. They survived. Maybe they can help me to do so, also. will set an example for those around me, especially those younger than I am, so they will know how to behave. <a href="http://media.gn.apc.org/nujcode.html" target="_blank">http://media.gn.apc.org/nujcode.html</a> (Substitute Atheist for Journalist)

08-15-2002, 02:49 PM	#5
CaptainDave Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 119	Toto, Pz, I'm not talking about a code of belief. I've always thought that that is useless. How can you impose a beleif in someone? I'm talking about a code of BEHAVIOR. A BIG part of our problem in gaining acceptance is our image. People don't like us. You can point out that the pledge excludes atheists as Americans. "Who cares?" the masses respond. "Atheists are bad people." The constitution protects us in principle only. That protection is powerful but also vulnerable. There is a movement for a constitutional amendment to sheild the language in the pledge and our (illegal) national motto from judicial action. This movement could not possibly succeed if we had a positive image. People wouldn't stand for it. But people don't like us. I think we need to change this if we expect to continue to enjoy constitutional protection.

08-15-2002, 02:55 PM	#6
RichardMorey Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Missouri Posts: 112	I think that between logic, the law, and common decency we have a good enough guide.

08-15-2002, 03:31 PM	#7
4th Generation Atheist Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Tower of Ecthelion...by the Starbuck's Posts: 1,815	I suspect that in order to "make those people like us", our code of conduct would have to include elements that many of us would find despicable, such as rules against homosexuality, abortion, and women's rights. Because most of the people who really hate atheists hate us because many of us disagree with them on these issues, we wouldn't win their friendship unless we could "prove" that a draconian code of conduct like that can be arrived at w/o a God---a point which I doubt we could convince them of anyway. Most people who are middle-of-the-road on these topics don't mind atheists anyway. As to the others, it might be better to just accept that they're not our friends and endeavor to keep them from gaining too much political power---which we can do by building a suitable coalition with those who don't mind us.

08-15-2002, 03:43 PM	#8
CaptainDave Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 119	So much for that idea. Thank's everybody for your input.

08-15-2002, 04:00 PM	#10
CaptainDave Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Keys Posts: 119	I'll try butterflies next. I'm a glutton for punishment. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

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