Freethought & Rationalism Archive

NightWatchman · 02-06-2003, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jobar
I think this thread belongs in GRD, so I'm moving it.

Lost433, welcome to II. This is a good place to ask about anything religious; and I assure you that NightWatchman here is not typical of our users. He and Amos are interesting, but not really in to clear and precise answers to simple questions.

NW, your posts are sometimes quite poetic, but this is not a poetry forum. Clear and concise is what we prefer here.

I dont know how i can be more clear and precise, god is electrical and its photons, what do you want.

And to lump me with amos, come on?

Bless his heart, at least i dont speak in nonsensical words, and jumbled sentences. Its straight foeward science.

admice · 02-06-2003, 10:45 PM

NW-as someone else said, learn your physics. All is NOT just electricity. I think you are metaphoring yourself to ill mental health (I don't mean that sarcastically, I am concerned).

Lost433, welcome. I'm glad you're asking. Do read the library here and you can find more on the web and of course in any bookstore.

Others here are better than I am at arguing about the non-existence of god or the origin of the universe. For me, I think we don't know the origin and can leave it at that. But the question about god, here's what thoughts I had that led to my atheism.
I started as a born-again christian, by the way. I had already learned that a literal interpretation of the Bible was not rationally aceptable. So if not literal how can you believe, justify, verify any of it? Even if it's all metaphor, answer is, you can't. Verification, for me, was and is very important.

Next followed, so, what about logic? If god is omnipotent, why have natural disasters that detroy life? That has nothing to do with free will. Not influenced by man at all, so why? No logical answer. If god is omnipotent and benevolent, why the #$%$ would it need or want me to worship it? Can't ascribe to a god like that. If I had those characteristics I would do what ever I could to 'help', not want praise. If one answers "we can't know the mind of god", then back to irrationality and I want no part of it, thanks.

Why would a god want faith, does that make sense? Not to me.

I couldn't come up with a logical god that I could EVER worship. Even if there ever turned out to be some god, I could never worship it.

Anyway, glad I got to write this. Clarified some things for me.

I realize other people don't have the criteria I do, that beliefs have to be justified rationally and logically (especially one so important as having life dictated by a deity), but those are important for me.

I hope you find some of your answers, or even just more questions. And even though we know why we think flowers and sunsets are beautiful, I'm glad we do and I still think they are. The universe is a beautiful place and you just might not need a god in your life to enjoy it.

tc

Sue Sponte · 02-07-2003, 12:01 AM

Quote:

As far as we know it is the only planet at all that supports life. But we don't know much.

Indeed. I'd also add that what we know is limited to what humans are currently capable of perceiving and understanding. There may be many forms of "life" that we are simply unaware of at this time.

But beyond that quibble, it's all speculation and how we speculate is as enlightening as the conclusions we reach. For example, I wonder more about what we don't know about the universe than what we do know. From that perspective, assuming that this is the only "small blue ball", or that small blue balls are something of consequence, must be tempered with an appreciation of our homocentric views. What humans can and do understand of the universe may be negligible, at best. So why limit the inquiry into what you do not understand to that small blue ball? To me, this seems to presume that the Earth is the center of the universe, a theists precept which may have no foundation.

NightWatchman · 02-07-2003, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by admice
NW-as someone else said, learn your physics. All is NOT just electricity. I think you are metaphoring yourself to ill mental health (I don't mean that sarcastically, I am concerned).

Lost433, welcome. I'm glad you're asking. Do read the library here and you can find more on the web and of course in any bookstore.

Others here are better than I am at arguing about the non-existence of god or the origin of the universe. For me, I think we don't know the origin and can leave it at that. But the question about god, here's what thoughts I had that led to my atheism.
I started as a born-again christian, by the way. I had already learned that a literal interpretation of the Bible was not rationally aceptable. So if not literal how can you believe, justify, verify any of it? Even if it's all metaphor, answer is, you can't. Verification, for me, was and is very important.

Next followed, so, what about logic? If god is omnipotent, why have natural disasters that detroy life? That has nothing to do with free will. Not influenced by man at all, so why? No logical answer. If god is omnipotent and benevolent, why the #$%$ would it need or want me to worship it? Can't ascribe to a god like that. If I had those characteristics I would do what ever I could to 'help', not want praise. If one answers "we can't know the mind of god", then back to irrationality and I want no part of it, thanks.

Why would a god want faith, does that make sense? Not to me.

I couldn't come up with a logical god that I could EVER worship. Even if there ever turned out to be some god, I could never worship it.

Anyway, glad I got to write this. Clarified some things for me.

I realize other people don't have the criteria I do, that beliefs have to be justified rationally and logically (especially one so important as having life dictated by a deity), but those are important for me.

I hope you find some of your answers, or even just more questions. And even though we know why we think flowers and sunsets are beautiful, I'm glad we do and I still think they are. The universe is a beautiful place and you just might not need a god in your life to enjoy it.

tc

Religion says God is all thease thingss, nature is nature, if you stand in frint of a moving drain youll get run over.

Religion uses the word worship, Religion is nonsense.
The nostic gospel of thomas says you are saved by knowledge, not by faith.
This book as many was removed from the bible by constantine.

The bible is a book of symbols for the most part, and fundies dont know this, so they miss the point.

No egotistical god requires you to worshop it, when a kung fu master uses chi (god) to perform feats of strength, he didnt come to this shill from worshop, he did certain breathing exercises and meditation.

Wo to you scribes and pharisess, for you have shut up the kingdom of god, because you do not go in yourself (meditate) and you do not teach the people to go in. Meditate.

Oh yes its in the bible.

Refused · 02-07-2003, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NightWatchman
Refused

its all science thats all, consider the following email pasted from my email box

The speed of light has often been a variable and
even your original memo said that some people
said it was 186,000 and others 186,292.

The point is that we are looking at text that is thousands
of years old and connects a tribe (Judah) known as the
children of light with the number 186,400.

You will find that in many instances the same people who
cannot deal with that will go to church and accept the myriad
of symbolic Biblical references as being literal such as talking
donkeys, floating ax heads, seas opening up, talking bushes
on fire etc.

To me, if our general feeling is that the speed of light is 186,000
or 186,292 and a document coming from those who provided us
with the basis of our scientific knowledge, (namely the classic Greek), says it is 186,400, I would reach the conclusion that we are possibly wrong.

As you have so cleverly uncovered, that is exactly correct. It is also interesting to know that scientists in Princeton have both increased the speed and decreased it.

The basis is, we have proved the Bible. Children of Light 186,400, speed of light 186,400. Even if it was 186,000, the 400 secs. per hour would be close enough.

this is in relation to the verse in the bible that says the tribe of light which is juddah is 186,400

The speed of light has often been a variable and
even your original memo said that some people
said it was 186,000 and others 186,292.

The point is that we are looking at text that is thousands
of years old and connects a tribe (Judah) known as the
children of light with the number 186,400.

You will find that in many instances the same people who
cannot deal with that will go to church and accept the myriad
of symbolic Biblical references as being literal such as talking
donkeys, floating ax heads, seas opening up, talking bushes
on fire etc.

To me, if our general feeling is that the speed of light is 186,000
or 186,292 and a document coming from those who provided us
with the basis of our scientific knowledge, (namely the classic Greek), says it is 186,400, I would reach the conclusion that we are possibly
wrong.

As you have so cleverly uncovered, that is exactly correct. It is alsointeresting to know that scientists in Princeton have both increasedthe speed and decreased it.

The basis is, we have proved the Bible. Children of Light 186,400, speed of light 186,400. Even if it was 186,000, the 400 secs. per hour wouldbe close enough.

The speed of light has often been a variable and
even your original memo said that some people
said it was 186,000 and others 186,292.

The point is that we are looking at text that is thousands
of years old and connects a tribe (Judah) known as the
children of light with the number 186,400.

You will find that in many instances the same people who
cannot deal with that will go to church and accept the myriad
of symbolic Biblical references as being literal such as talking
donkeys, floating ax heads, seas opening up, talking bushes
on fire etc.

To me, if our general feeling is that the speed of light is 186,000
or 186,292 and a document coming from those who provided us
with the basis of our scientific knowledge, (namely the classic Greek), says it is 186,400, I would reach the conclusion that we are possibly
wrong.

As you have so cleverly uncovered, that is exactly correct. It is also interesting to know that scientists in Princeton have both increased the speed and decreased it.

The basis is, we have proved the Bible. Children of Light 186,400, speed of light 186,400. Even if it was 186,000, the 400 secs. per hour would be close enough.

Taken from the web site howstuffworks

In our lives we do not ever perceive length contraction because we move at speeds that are very small with respect to the speed of light. The change is too small for us to notice. Remember the speed of light is 669,600,000 miles/hour or 186,400 miles/sec, so it is easy to see why our everyday speeds are negligible.

in the bible the book of numbers says, the tribe of juddah, which is the tribe of light is 186,400 incrediblly

light is photons

nightwatchman

NW, how did these "pagan scientists" get this profound knowledge? What instruments did they use to test their theories? Just curious...

- Refused

Jack the Bodiless · 02-07-2003, 07:43 AM

Quote:

2. "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys, an whose emission was like that of horses." Ezekiel 23:20

"She" is the mind. The mind lusts after the lower physical things. The genitals represent life, creation, origins. The geneitals of the lower are brutish and stubborn (donkey). They are the kinds of thoughts that will not follow the higher. They stay where they are. The emission means the seed that enters "her". Its life is brutish and stubborn but its origin is the horse which is the carrier to heaven. The horse is always used to transport the Gods to heaven, like Pegasus. The heaven however is the mind that is controlled by the stubborn brutish nature. The combination of the two is a person who is very stubborn and brutish but takes charge and directs things from the lower or physicl nature.

Heh.

Haha.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Haha.

...Huh?

...You're being serious?

Quote:

Electrical Resistance is OHM

Is it a coincidence that in meditation the sound was raised and it
was OM. Of course not.

Yes, it was. Ohm was a man: Georg Simon Ohm, 1789-1854.

Quote:

What is so special about this. Protein changes DNA. A root of the word protein is prow which compares to the KEEL OF A SHIP.

Nope. From www.mirriamwebster.com:

Quote:

Etymology: French prot�ine, from Late Greek prOteios primary, from Greek prOtos first

Moving on:

Quote:

DNA, Photons, Electricity. what more do you want, the star Eta Carinae, is pumping out fresh dna at i million miles per second, again on NASA's web site, which is science isnt it.

Eta Carinae pumping out "fresh DNA"?

There is certainly a large quantity of organic material being pumped out around here. But it's not DNA, and it's not from Eta Carinae.

Quote:

The speed of light has often been a variable and even your original memo said that some people said it was 186,000 and others 186,292.

The speed of light is approximately 186,282 miles per second, and is a fundamental constant. "186,000" is an approximation, quicker to say and easier to work with.

Quote:

As you have so cleverly uncovered, that is exactly correct. It is also interesting to know that scientists in Princeton have both increased the speed and decreased it.

Bullshit. Light can be made to slow down slightly (even a window pane will do that), but it cannot be accelerated beyond its normal top speed in a vacuum.

Enlighten Me · 02-07-2003, 07:59 AM

This is the natural world. Enjoy it while you can, and help others to enjoy it, too!

NightWatchman · 02-07-2003, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless
Heh.

Haha.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Haha.

...Huh?

...You're being serious?

Yes, it was. Ohm was a man: Georg Simon Ohm, 1789-1854.

Nope. From www.mirriamwebster.com:

Moving on:

Eta Carinae pumping out "fresh DNA"?

There is certainly a large quantity of organic material being pumped out around here. But it's not DNA, and it's not from Eta Carinae.

The speed of light is approximately 186,282 miles per second, and is a fundamental constant. "186,000" is an approximation, quicker to say and easier to work with.

Bullshit. Light can be made to slow down slightly (even a window pane will do that), but it cannot be accelerated beyond its normal top speed in a vacuum.

Dont respond to the posts if youre not sure of what youre talking about, read the article from princeton university, light has been stopped completely and sped up beyond 186,400

ill post the article later.
Inform yourself first before trying to correct me.
it will make you look ignorant

nightwatchman

Starboy · 02-07-2003, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lost433
So, here's my question. If God, doesn't exist, what is life? What is the universe? Why and how is it you have a small blue ball that happens to be the only planet for miles/kilometers that supports life, and happens to have the right elements?

Is all of this beauty and intelligence just a fluke?

Those would be good questions if god did exist. Why life? Why just earth? Why beauty and intelligence? The Christian explanations are no better than no explanations at all. At base the Christian answer is that existence is a mystery. Existence can still be a mystery without god(s).

Starboy

NightWatchman · 02-07-2003, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Refused
NW, how did these "pagan scientists" get this profound knowledge? What instruments did they use to test their theories? Just curious...

- Refused

refused are you ready

the classical greeks were not a bunch of sheephearders, they gave the world the foundation of knowledge, read about them . they were discussing quantum mechanics, atoms and such thousands of years ago.

Now ,all is not as it seems.

Mene Mene your kingdom has been numbered says in revelation
now in greek each letter has a corresponding number its called gematria.

now the verse says mene mene your kingdom has been numbered, meaning you and I

Now mene mene comes to 40 05 05 5
in other words 4555

now go tour google search engine and type in ngc 4555

and you will have your answer

nightwatchman

02-07-2003, 07:59 AM	#47
Enlighten Me Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Ca. Posts: 1,109	Re: If there's no god, what is all of this? This is the natural world. Enjoy it while you can, and help others to enjoy it, too!

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02-06-2003, 10:45 PM	#42
admice Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: S Cal Posts: 327	NW-as someone else said, learn your physics. All is NOT just electricity. I think you are metaphoring yourself to ill mental health (I don't mean that sarcastically, I am concerned). Lost433, welcome. I'm glad you're asking. Do read the library here and you can find more on the web and of course in any bookstore. Others here are better than I am at arguing about the non-existence of god or the origin of the universe. For me, I think we don't know the origin and can leave it at that. But the question about god, here's what thoughts I had that led to my atheism. I started as a born-again christian, by the way. I had already learned that a literal interpretation of the Bible was not rationally aceptable. So if not literal how can you believe, justify, verify any of it? Even if it's all metaphor, answer is, you can't. Verification, for me, was and is very important. Next followed, so, what about logic? If god is omnipotent, why have natural disasters that detroy life? That has nothing to do with free will. Not influenced by man at all, so why? No logical answer. If god is omnipotent and benevolent, why the #$%$ would it need or want me to worship it? Can't ascribe to a god like that. If I had those characteristics I would do what ever I could to 'help', not want praise. If one answers "we can't know the mind of god", then back to irrationality and I want no part of it, thanks. Why would a god want faith, does that make sense? Not to me. I couldn't come up with a logical god that I could EVER worship. Even if there ever turned out to be some god, I could never worship it. Anyway, glad I got to write this. Clarified some things for me. I realize other people don't have the criteria I do, that beliefs have to be justified rationally and logically (especially one so important as having life dictated by a deity), but those are important for me. I hope you find some of your answers, or even just more questions. And even though we know why we think flowers and sunsets are beautiful, I'm glad we do and I still think they are. The universe is a beautiful place and you just might not need a god in your life to enjoy it. tc

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