Wyz_sub10

I think this topic is more suited to General Religious Discussions.

Valentine Pontifex

This is a bit much. There is a difference between a falsehood and a lie. If the Pope believes in the virgin birth then he is NOT lying by teaching his dogma. I strongly suspect the pope really does believe this. Not all falsehoods are lies.

The same post also had:

This is a bit of missing the point. The "conception" of Jesus is supposed to be a miracle. Miracles by definition do not follow the realities of nature. Thus you cannot debunk a miracle by saying that it does not follow biological reality. Remember what the the Roman Catholic Church believes in an omnipotent God that can do anything.

The Roman Catholic Church has a lot to answer to and has enough irrationalities so I don't see what we have to gain by making such weak examples.

A better line of attack is the internal contradictions of Catholic doctrine--even an omnipotent God cannot make a contradiction true-- or to ask why we should believe in the doctrine in the first place.

Debbie T

God can do anything except get the human race right. He can create the world and all its inhabitants yet can't seem to make humans without a violent nature. So he kills them off so that he can start over yet appears to forget that the humans he saved still have the same tendencies. Seems he could have given them a kinder, gentler nature. So the world is still a mess after the flood. Then he does the virgin birth miracle and has his offspring pay the price of his goofs and that still didn't change anything. So he creates a hell to throw people in to pay for his own mistakes.

God needs a mentor of some sort to get him back on the right track. What a mess he has made! Amen.

Amos

Cloning is just like taking soft wood cuttings from trees and plants and so there in nothing to get exceited about, abe.

Mary was not human, abe, and if you don't believe this show me were it says that she was. You assume she was but that is just where you go wrong. If she was not human she was all woman and therefore can be impregnated by God.

Amos

God did not create the human race but created man as a heavenly creature. The fall of man created man's human-ity which is a condition of being that was a dded to man who so became a human being. For this the prefix -hu (from -humi) was added to man to indicate the earthliness of this second nature. So in effect hu-man beings are divided between their heavenly and earthly nature and that is where all the problems you see comes from. God had nothing to do with this.

beyelzu

amos as usual you are so incredibly wrong. but at least you seem to be consistent with your odd psychoanalytical freudian catholism.
if an omnimax god made man then he knew all of mans possiblities and by creating him set up the whole tree action and thus is responsible for man's choices including the whole apple thing.

abe smith

Amos, & the rest of you Believers.....
The RULES of the Incarnation and the reason for it = to Atone for (Adam"s) Original Sin, REQUIRE that the Saviour of Mankind HAD to have been a TRUE HUMAN BEING like all the rest of us.
You Miracle-Eaters may not LIKE this; but it is what your Idol, "the Cheuch" has always held fast to; and fought bloody arguments and some bloody wars, against heresies, to maintain. You can go ask Joe Cardinal Ratzinger, who is in charge of those assertions, "Was Christ the Lord a true human being?" and see what he answers.

I TELL YOU: 1. a true human being has 48 human chromosomes.
2.a true human being is produced from a human zygote, formed by the joining of a human egg-cell and a human sperma-tozoon.
3. In order to be a true human *male*, a human individual has to possess a Y = MALE chromosome.
4. The only "legitimate" >>>> truly-human SOURCE for the Y = MALE chromosome is a HUMAN MALE FATHER.
5. It is absolutely true that the "God" fiction, which believers
allege, can be posited to do any sort of MIRACULOUS junk you like.
6. But if that "GOD" makes a miraculous Saviour by fiat, that
thing He makes/made is NOT a human being, it is an ARTEFACT.
7. Catholicism's "God" made the Rules for the Atonement; and "he" (sic) himself has to keep them.

Don't bother fighting with me, you True Believers. Get it straight from the Horse's mouth @ the Vatican.

Person/aloft's ^^^^ quibble distinguishing between a "LIE" and a "FALSEHOOD" reminds us of R.Reagan's excuse, that he "mis-spoke himself".

Amos

Didn't somebody tell you here that you are doing OK but had a lot to learn?

Amos

Hello abe, don't get so upset over this even if you are wrong!

Jesus had a dual nature, one was human and the other was God. The humanity he had was from Joseph to whom the Christ identity was born and during the gospels we see how the human Jesus identity is prepared for crucifixion to set free the Christ identity under the name of Bar-abbas (son of the father). This melodrama takes place in the gospels and is what we call purgatory. Protestants don't have that because they can't get to heaven anyway and the proof this is that they do not have a purgatory of some sort.

Your biology thing sounds nice but this is not biology. We are talking salvation here and if you don't know the difference between these two I can see why you are mixed up.

Valentine Pontifex

I sure hope you did not think that I actually defending Catholic doctrine. I was merely criticing a very weak critic of it.

Yes, it makes no sense for God to make us imperfect and hold us to the standard of perfection and thus damn us for being imperfect. And furthermore it make no sense that killing an innocent to pay for the sins of the guilty. Etc. Etc. Etc.