Stephen T-B

What you are telling us, Whispers, is that your world is full of magic.
That’s good. It obviously makes you happy.

But don’t expect it to make me happy.
My confidence in inviolable, natural laws, makes me happy.

If I were walking along Wellington Street in Leeds and saw a figure flying overhead without apparent means of support, I would not think I was witnessing a miracle; I would not think I was seeing Jesus.
I would conclude that there was a natural explanation, even if I wasn’t able to provide one on account of not being in possession of the necessary facts.

What would you think?

Not being able to explain something is no good reason to think magic’s responsible for it..

Wyrdsmyth

Whispers,

You're setting up a false dichotomy, probably from a lack of exposure to atheists, skeptics and non-believers. From your original post, it is fairly evident that your comments about non-believers come more from your own preconceived notions rather than actual interaction. One of those stereotypes is that atheists must be "missing" or "lacking" something, if they don't see the spiritual/supernatural aspect of life that... well, that you think you see. But that is the sort of thing religious people might conclude when talking about atheists, when no atheists are actually in the room.

The false dichotomy is either one can perceive the wonder and beauty in nature that is evidence that there is a god (and not just any god, but the Christian god), or one is "in denial" and just doesn't want to or cannot recognize all of this spiritual evidence, which you seem to think is just blooming all around us. Hopefully, by conversing with actual real life atheists (rather than just discussing stereotypes with your similar-minded friends), you will come to see why this is a false dichotomy. Maybe you will even become more open minded in your view of atheists, skeptics, and non-believers, and even appreciate (if not agree with), the real reasons we are.

Regards,

Wyrdsmyth

StrongMan

What this says to me is that without your belief in god, a sunset would mean nothing to you, I would mean nothing to you, your child would mean nothing to you.

So is that true? Lets say all of a sudden you lost your belief in god, would your child mean nothing to you?

Aravnah Ornan

Not everyone needs to believe in G-d to see wonder, beauty, and amazement when looking at a baby.

I feel awe that a few simple physical laws can give rise to such a wondrous thing.

Many people see a vision of reincarnation or nirvana. Given your own reasoning, how will you argue with them? As for myself, I see Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 in action.

I see a world of choices, experiences, and the free will to live my life during my life.

Yes, but it's possible to have those things without believing in G-d. Are hope, meaning, and significance imposed on you, or do you create them?

wordsmyth

I see a child of indoctrination, someone delusional, presumptuous and full of ignorance. Sorry, but you asked.

When you understand this, you will understand why there was no need for me to answer any of your other questions.

emotional

Contrast Whispers' original post with the curmudgeonly responses.

Is it any wonder I left atheism?

Wyrdsmyth

Yes, it is, because being curmudgeonly doesn't make one wrong.

emotional

Yes it does. Being curmudgeonly is wrong.

AJ113

Not really, you have demonstrated that you are much happier with fantasy than fact. If it helps you to cite the reason for your beliefs as the excessive curmudgeonliness of some atheists, go right ahead.

AJ113

Being curmudgeonly is wrong, therefore you have decided to follow a god of your own fabrication?