christ-on-a-stick

Hey Badfish -

Do the angels have free will?

If not, how did Satan "fall"?

Further to that, Xians say that it was Satan's "pride" that caused him to rebel against God. Where did that pride come from? Who created his nature?

Defiant Heretic

Prometheus?

Tom Sawyer

If there's no sin in Heaven, can people bring it in?

I assume you don't have to be absolutely perfect to get in, so there has to be some sort of cut-off line in terms of sin quotient (SQ). For example purposes, we'll give this a value of 100. So if a person has a SQ that just barely allows him to get into heaven, like 99, and then is surrounded by a bunch of people who are more pure than he is and he starts to feel envy (a sin) and this adds a bit to his SQ to put him over what would have been allowed, like 101, do some angel bouncers come over and boot him out? If not, can anyone in there commit a sin just because they retain their free will and they get bored after a few billion years and suffer no consequences for it?

Is there any kind of appeal process for people who don't get in? If someone has a SQ of 101 and they feel that the affair they were charged with wasn't really sex, based on the Clintonian definition, so it should only count for half and that would put them over the line is there anyone they can talk to? Especially if they see a bunch of slave owners and wife beaters walking around on the other side of the pearly gates because those things were considered moral when those people died, I'd want some kind of recourse. Also, if something is determined to be a sin after you die, like slavery, are you retroactively charged for it?

There really are a lot of questions this God fellow has to answer. Perhaps if he posted a FAQ?

Magus55

Well Archangel Lucifer and the angels were there yes, until they rebelled. Hell was created for Lucifer and the now "fallen" angels to spend eternity for their rebellion.

Does one have the ability to do evil in heaven? Most likely. IMO ( which may differ from Badfish), is we will still have free will in Heaven. The difference is, we have lived in this sinful world, and know the pain and destruction it causes. Why would we ever give our lives to Jesus and turn from sin because of how much we hate it, just to do it again? We will also be in incorruptible bodies with no inclination or desire to sin. I imagine if hypothetically, someone in Heaven turned back to sin, they would be cast to Hell - but if they were ever to do that, they doubtfully would ever have been saved and gotten to Heaven in the first place.



Wrong. The only people in Heaven will be those who love God and turned away from sin. There is no hatred in Heaven. If you look forward to going to Heaven and telling God off, you doubtfully will be going to Heaven in the first place.

No our thoughts won't be controlled. There will be no bad thoughts, because everyone in Heaven has been set free from sin. There is no temptation, no Satan, no pain - nothing that could ever lead to sin or bad thoughts in heaven. You will have free will, but no desire to sin.




Yes Angels have free will.

Pride is an offense against God's humility. Lucifer just used his free will to go against that aspect of God, which created Pride. Pride is just the negative side of humility. If you aren't humble, you are prideful. God didn't create pride, Satan caused pride by not being humble.

AJ113

God didn't create pride? Now I'm really confused. I thought god created everything?

Mageth

Heaven sounds more and more boring all the time.

AJ113

That's because it doesn't exist.

Badfish

Yes obviously, he rebelled. With free will comes rebellion. Don't ask me why God didn't just make utopia in the first place.

I have some idea's, but they are just that, idea's.

You know, why the whole grand play?

christ-on-a-stick

Heh?

Badfish

If man is destined for heaven, why do we have to go through the whole play of living out what was destined.

See what I mean?

Why not just create instant utopia, and avoid all the pain and heartache, both for humans and for God.