malookiemaloo

Greetings everyone,

Since I have been on the Sec. Web I have noticed that sceptics/agnostics/atheists have always cried out for evidence re the existence of a deity. Atheists pride themselves with their objectivity and willingness to believe if the evidence was produced.

A number of Christians have come on to the Web making statements like 'no matter what evidence was produced, you woul never believe' I have always considered such statements to be crass and the signs of a Christian apologetic 'scraping the bottom of the barrel' for anti-atheistic arguments.

However, I have given the matter further thought and the question does come to my mind what evidence would actually convince an atheist? I have great difficulty coming up with an answer.

Clearly some sort of divine revelation would be summarily dismissed or would it? If you received a personal visit from the risen Christ in your living room, would you believe? Would anyone else believe you before you were commited to a padded cell?

If the Bible was written differently would it convince anyone? Eg if Daniel was clearly and obviously written by him when he lived would more people be convinced? (Joel that's for you!!).

Just what evidence would convince atheists?

I would appreciate all views on this one. Diana, I specifically look forward to your thoughts on the matter.


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Whispers

A step of faith would always be needed. Even if jesus came back now and stated performing miracles, which were viewable on the nightly news, a step of faith would be required to say that he was the son of god etc. Even if he appeared in your house and healed your sickness, you would STILL need to take a step of faith as to whom he was. The step would be a LOT smaller, but a step would still be required....

malookiemaloo

I think what you say is right.

But if faith is a pre-requisite before anyone can believe, then is evidence rendered redundant or at least downscaled?

America is still sleeping but I suppose I'll get some replies in the afternoon!


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Nowhere357

Evidence for a deity is one thing - I'm thinking of Q on star trek for example.

Evidence that the xian mythology is fact - that's something else altogether. As a guide to truth about physical reality, the bible is a joke - so I don't know what "divinely inspired" is supposed to mean. The brutal truth is that I can imagine no evidence which would convince me the xian myth is "true". Any evidence at all would have to be considered under some other light - some other theory - in order to make any sense at all.

And I have an excellent imagination, and an open mind. Spiritual reality may be true - there may be a god or gods, a universal mind, a soul school, evil spirits - I don't know. There may be only patterns of matter/energy in space/time and that's it - I don't know.

But I am sure that xian dogma is based on primitive myth. The bible is so logically unsound that to ask for proof of divinity is like asking for evidence of a square circle - it makes no sense.

malookiemaloo

I made no reference to 'divinely inspired'. I am not even that concerned about the Bible for the purposes of this question. I just wondered what it would take for you to believe.

You're answer in actually quite worrying. What you appear to be saying is that, no matter what, you would never believe. Have I mis-understood you?


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Javaman

I think I've tried to make this point in the past but...

When discussing what it would take to convince us, remember that many deities are given some pretty high-falutin' credentials. This usually includes omnicience. I think it clearly follows that this group of gods (to include the Christian one)
Knows exactly what it would take to convince any unbeliever. This deity then must provide that evidence or it doesn't truly love the heathen. I'd repost the standard answers when I've used this argument but I think I'd like to see if there are any new ones. This seems simple to me but I must be missing something:

1 God knows everyone's mind
2 God Loves his folk
3 God doesn't provide what's necessary to believe

Either one of the first two isn't correct or...

malookiemaloo

You are missing my point. My question is not a trick one.

I am simply asking what would it take to convince you?

The type of God who may exist, what demands He would make on you (if any), whether He is love or not etc etc are irrelevant to my question.


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Theli

I've always wondered how such evidence would present itself, I mean if god reveals himself to me as a burning bush, I wouldn't conclude that he (it) is god. Just a burning bush.

Jack the Bodiless

Most religions state that certain powers will be granted to those who believe. That would give me something to check in person. If the Invisible Pink Unicorn let it be known that praying to her will cause me to emit a soft pink glow and levitate three feet into the air, and this did indeed happen every time I tried it (in any location, at any time), I'd find that very convincing.

malookiemaloo

This is really my point.

If God did manifest Himself in a burning bush a la Moses it appears that you would not believe-unless I mis-understand you.

Now, if God talking to you direct through a burning bush does not convince you...............what would? Anything?

As I said I hesitate to accuse non-theists of 'you will never believe no matter what' but .......................


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