Freethought & Rationalism Archive

doodad · 12-15-2002, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fiach:


Disbelief means faulty or erroneous belief, but implies belief of some type. Disbelief to a Christian is the views of a Christian heretic like a Cathar, Bogomil, Lutheran to a Catholic, Catholic to an Orthodox, and Muslim to Christians. Sunni Muslims consider Shiites and Druses, Alawites to be disbelievers not unbelievers.

As one who finds no compelling reason to believe in any God, I am not a disbeliever. I am an unbeliever. I have no belief in any kind of God. Disbelievers are believers whose beliefs differ from one believer's perspective.

Fiach

According to Webster the word disbelief is synonomous with unbelief.

Fiach · 12-15-2002, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by doodad:


According to Webster the word disbelief is synonomous with unbelief.

Sorry Dood, but like so many Americans your Latin and Greek education was neglected. Let me help you.

See: <a href="http://www.lexfiles.com/basic-grk-a-l.html" target="_blank">http://www.lexfiles.com/basic-grk-a-l.html</a>

This is a Greek prefix Dis from Dys. Here is the dictionary definition of the prefix dis/dys

dys- (Greek: bad, harsh, wrong; ill; hard to, difficult at; slow of; disordered; used as a prefix).

Un is a Latin prefix please see this site:

<a href="http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Un" target="_blank">http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Un</a>

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]

Un- \Un-\ [OE. & AS. un-; akin to OFries. un-, D. on-, OS., OHG., & G. un-, Icel. [=o]-, [=u]-, Sw. o-, Dan. u-, W. an-, L. in-, Gr. ?, ?, Skr. an-, a-. [root]193.
Cf. {A-} not {In-} not, No, adv.]

An inseparable prefix, or particle, signifying not; in-; non-. In- is prefixed mostly to words of Latin origin, orelse to words formed by Latin suffixes;

UN- is of much wider application, and is attached at will to almost any adjective, or participle used adjectively, or adverb, from which it may
be desired to form a corresponding negative adjective or adverb, and is also, but less freely, prefixed to nouns.

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]

Un- \Un-\ [OE. un-, on-, the unaccented form of the accented prefix and- (cf. {Answer}); akin to D. ont-, G. ent-, OHG. int-, Goth. and-. See {Anti-}.]

An inseparable verbal prefix or particle. It is prefixed:
(a) To verbs to express the contrary, and not the simple negative, of the action of the verb to which it is prefixed; as in uncoil, undo, unfold.
(b) To nouns to form verbs expressing privation of the thing, quality, or state expressed by the noun, or separation from it; as in unchild, unsex. Sometimes particles and
participial adjectives formed with this prefix coincide in form with compounds of the negative prefix un- (see 2d {Un-}); as in undone (from undo), meaning unfastened, ruined; and undone (from 2d un- and done) meaning not done, not finished.

So, Dood, the prevailing documented origins of Latin prefixes, Un- means without or absent, lacking. Dis or Dys is Greek prefix for "bad, harsh, wrong, disordered."

I rest my case.

Fiach

Kharakov · 12-15-2002, 06:16 PM

Fiach- go to the <a href="http://www.m-w.com" target="_blank">merriam webster online dictionary</a>. Look up disbelief, then disbelieve.

Better yet, check out <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disbelief" target="_blank">dictionary.com's page</a> on disbelief.

Clan Mac Cumhaill

doodad · 12-16-2002, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fiach:


Sorry Dood, but like so many Americans your Latin and Greek education was neglected. Let me help you.

See: <a href="http://www.lexfiles.com/basic-grk-a-l.html" target="_blank">http://www.lexfiles.com/basic-grk-a-l.html</a>

This is a Greek prefix Dis from Dys. Here is the dictionary definition of the prefix dis/dys

dys- (Greek: bad, harsh, wrong; ill; hard to, difficult at; slow of; disordered; used as a prefix).

Un is a Latin prefix please see this site:

<a href="http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Un" target="_blank">http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Un</a>

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]

Un- \Un-\ [OE. & AS. un-; akin to OFries. un-, D. on-, OS., OHG., & G. un-, Icel. [=o]-, [=u]-, Sw. o-, Dan. u-, W. an-, L. in-, Gr. ?, ?, Skr. an-, a-. [root]193.
Cf. {A-} not {In-} not, No, adv.]

An inseparable prefix, or particle, signifying not; in-; non-. In- is prefixed mostly to words of Latin origin, orelse to words formed by Latin suffixes;

UN- is of much wider application, and is attached at will to almost any adjective, or participle used adjectively, or adverb, from which it may
be desired to form a corresponding negative adjective or adverb, and is also, but less freely, prefixed to nouns.

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]

Un- \Un-\ [OE. un-, on-, the unaccented form of the accented prefix and- (cf. {Answer}); akin to D. ont-, G. ent-, OHG. int-, Goth. and-. See {Anti-}.]

An inseparable verbal prefix or particle. It is prefixed:
(a) To verbs to express the contrary, and not the simple negative, of the action of the verb to which it is prefixed; as in uncoil, undo, unfold.
(b) To nouns to form verbs expressing privation of the thing, quality, or state expressed by the noun, or separation from it; as in unchild, unsex. Sometimes particles and
participial adjectives formed with this prefix coincide in form with compounds of the negative prefix un- (see 2d {Un-}); as in undone (from undo), meaning unfastened, ruined; and undone (from 2d un- and done) meaning not done, not finished.

So, Dood, the prevailing documented origins of Latin prefixes, Un- means without or absent, lacking. Dis or Dys is Greek prefix for "bad, harsh, wrong, disordered."

I rest my case.

Fiach

Like so many Americans, we do not speak Latin or Greek, so the meaning of words such as disbelief and unbelief take on the connotation of our culture through usage. Your dissertation was kinda interesting though.

Your attitude towards Americans gets old right quick to me, and I think that's why you persist in making fun of us. How many countries of the world have adopted "Scotch" as their second language? "American" is not the true English language, so maybe we should hang a new label on our corrupted versin of it. Is Italian the true Latin language?

There was a time when the offical language of diplomacy was French, but in time it was replaced for the most part by English. Do you think this was due to the dominance of Scots or Brits in the world? I doubt it. Hey guy, if you cannot beat us then join us or else wallow in your own envy.

[ December 16, 2002: Message edited by: doodad ]

seebs · 12-20-2002, 08:37 PM

Do you mean "classic" as in "old" or as in "gosh, I loved the good old days when they used that argument"?

Family Man · 12-21-2002, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seebs:
Do you mean "classic" as in "old" or as in "gosh, I loved the good old days when they used that argument"?

I think he means classic in the sense that he's amazed that someone would posit such an incredibly dumb argument.

seebs · 12-21-2002, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Family Man:

I think he means classic in the sense that he's amazed that someone would posit such an incredibly dumb argument.

I have a really hard time imagining anyone being amazed by stupid arguments in this day and age.

Theli · 12-21-2002, 09:18 AM

Quote:

God must exist because if he didn't, then there wouldn't be a God to disbelieve in the first place.

Hmmm... I must say that this has some interesting side-effects. Among those would be that people could never missinterpret anything, as their failed interpretation must also exist as an actual object. If it didn't then they couldn't know the concept of it.
That theist should really look up the word "concept".

Strange... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

AtomSmasher · 12-21-2002, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fiach:


Sorry Dood, but like so many Americans your Latin and Greek education was neglected. Let me help you.

See: <a href="http://www.lexfiles.com/basic-grk-a-l.html" target="_blank">http://www.lexfiles.com/basic-grk-a-l.html</a>

This is a Greek prefix Dis from Dys. Here is the dictionary definition of the prefix dis/dys

dys- (Greek: bad, harsh, wrong; ill; hard to, difficult at; slow of; disordered; used as a prefix).

Un is a Latin prefix please see this site:

<a href="http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Un" target="_blank">http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/Un</a>

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]

Un- \Un-\ [OE. & AS. un-; akin to OFries. un-, D. on-, OS., OHG., & G. un-, Icel. [=o]-, [=u]-, Sw. o-, Dan. u-, W. an-, L. in-, Gr. ?, ?, Skr. an-, a-. [root]193.
Cf. {A-} not {In-} not, No, adv.]

An inseparable prefix, or particle, signifying not; in-; non-. In- is prefixed mostly to words of Latin origin, orelse to words formed by Latin suffixes;

UN- is of much wider application, and is attached at will to almost any adjective, or participle used adjectively, or adverb, from which it may
be desired to form a corresponding negative adjective or adverb, and is also, but less freely, prefixed to nouns.

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]

Un- \Un-\ [OE. un-, on-, the unaccented form of the accented prefix and- (cf. {Answer}); akin to D. ont-, G. ent-, OHG. int-, Goth. and-. See {Anti-}.]

An inseparable verbal prefix or particle. It is prefixed:
(a) To verbs to express the contrary, and not the simple negative, of the action of the verb to which it is prefixed; as in uncoil, undo, unfold.
(b) To nouns to form verbs expressing privation of the thing, quality, or state expressed by the noun, or separation from it; as in unchild, unsex. Sometimes particles and
participial adjectives formed with this prefix coincide in form with compounds of the negative prefix un- (see 2d {Un-}); as in undone (from undo), meaning unfastened, ruined; and undone (from 2d un- and done) meaning not done, not finished.

So, Dood, the prevailing documented origins of Latin prefixes, Un- means without or absent, lacking. Dis or Dys is Greek prefix for "bad, harsh, wrong, disordered."

I rest my case.

Fiach

You are surely correct as far as the proper interpretation of the un and dys prefixes, however your childish stab at American linguistics was unnecessary.

Thomas Ash · 12-22-2002, 03:42 AM

Quote:

[QBGod must exist because if he didn't, then there wouldn't be a God to disbelieve in the first place. [/QB]

Actually, this type of argument is not so rare. I remember seeing an article in a local American newspaper devoted to the 'God Squad'(!), a Christian priest and a Jewish rabbi who answered people's religious questions for them. (I would have liked to write in to ask whether it posed any problems for the God Squad that they both though the other member was going to hell

.) One woman wrote in to say that her son had become an atheist and that she couldn't come up with any answers to his arguments. Their response was basically the same as your quote above.

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12-15-2002, 06:16 PM	#13
Kharakov Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Fidel Posts: 3,383	Fiach- go to the <a href="http://www.m-w.com" target="_blank">merriam webster online dictionary</a>. Look up disbelief, then disbelieve. Better yet, check out <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disbelief" target="_blank">dictionary.com's page</a> on disbelief. Clan Mac Cumhaill

12-20-2002, 08:37 PM	#15
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	Do you mean "classic" as in "old" or as in "gosh, I loved the good old days when they used that argument"?

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