Freethought & Rationalism Archive

New Atheist · 06-03-2002, 06:19 AM

This is stupid. I found this link in another forum, and wonder if you've discussed it and torn it apart yet.
<a href="http://www.rense.com/general3/8000.htm" target="_blank">http://www.rense.com/general3/8000.htm</a>
The main page is even worse. I suggested in the other forum that it is perhaps the mark of a meteor crashing. I don't have that many info on the story though, so I was wondering if you can help me, because there are people in that other forum who are telling me to 'prove' that somehow an ancient civilisation lived with humans, and was destroyed in a nuclear was that was recorderd by ancient Indian historians. I don't know what to say apart from the sheer improbability of that. I asked where the remnants of this ancient civilisation are, and one guy told me perhaps they were non-physical or gaseous and their buildings made of an alloy that is destroyed in radiation...

Here's the forum where I found this if you are interested. It's a PC Gaming forum, so most people there aren't THAT scientifically knowledgeable:
<a href="http://www.pcgf.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=921" target="_blank">http://www.pcgf.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=921</a>

Marduk · 06-03-2002, 09:15 AM

Here is another one
<a href="http://www.nexusmagazine.com/ancatomicwar1.html" target="_blank">http://www.nexusmagazine.com/ancatomicwar1.html</a>

Who knows? Some of those ancient Hindu Vedas (sp?) contain some pretty weird stuff.

Snake guys from space, flying saucers, missles exploding and causing elephants to burst into flame. Wild wild stuff!

ohwilleke · 06-03-2002, 10:59 AM

It seems as if there are three basic phenomena being described, (1) unexplained large sheets of natural glass in India and the Sahara, (2) radioactivity in parts of India, and (3) low temperature (1100 F) metamorphic rock in Scotland and other ancient sites.

Meteor impacts are one possible explanation of the large sheets of natural glass. Natural uranium deposits, or secret but modern Indian nuclear experiments can explain the second. Humans building big fires (either in siege attacks or on purpose for fortification) can explain the other.

One would also imagine that geological activity could explain some of these results. One could imagine magma from an ancient Saharan mountain forming glass from natural silica, with the rock then eroding away over eons into sand, while the harder glass remains untouched. Indeed, one could even imagine a well placed oasis having a lensing effect that used hot Saharan sun to focus the heat necessary to turn sand into glass (which isn't really all that high, you can do it in a small back yard forge).

One can also imagine, in Scotland, found metamorphic rock formations being chosen as good places to build forts, instead of the forts creating the rock.

New Atheist · 06-03-2002, 02:08 PM

That second link cropped into the discussion. Ohwilleke may I use your post there, since it is very informative?

beausoleil · 06-04-2002, 03:06 AM

Libyan desert glass is dated to 28 Ma and is associated with impact structures on the basis of its composition.

Here's a short piece from Christian Koeberl about it from a recent Meteoritical Society meeting...

<a href="http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2000/pdf/5253.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2000/pdf/5253.pdf</a>

The Nexus link's discussion of tektites and the Moon is absolute pants. Tektites are not products of lunar vulcanism - they occur in regionally well defined areas (a search under 'tektite strewn field' will provide all the information anyone could want) and are associated with impacts. Their ages preclude any associatoin with events in human history.

I can't find a single scientific publication describing the radiaoctive ash layer in Rajasthan, though defining search criteria is tricky.

ohwilleke · 06-04-2002, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by New Atheist:
<strong>That second link cropped into the discussion. Ohwilleke may I use your post there, since it is very informative?</strong>

Sure, although I wouldn't be so complementary to myself, just speculation really.

ShottleBop · 06-04-2002, 12:01 PM

From <a href="http://www.prop1.org/2000/accident/facts9.htm" target="_blank">http://www.prop1.org/2000/accident/facts9.htm</A> (an antinuclear group):

Quote:

1049. 1991, September - RAWATBHATA, INDIA

Rajasthan, a power station with one of two reactors running at a maxium of 501 capacity and described as 'crippled', caused an uproar in the Indian Parliament because of findings by a medical team that villagers living nearby are suffering from unusual health problems.

These include spontaneous abortions, sterility, deformed children, rare skin diseases and so on. The plant, commissioned in 1973, was shut down at least 250 times during its first decade and has had serious leakage problems throughout the 1980's. A more detailed study of the villagers would become available after six months. (The Age, 23/9/91)

Corwin · 06-04-2002, 12:18 PM

Just to point out something about the original message...

Rense.com makes Art Bell look downright rational. The author is a COMPLETE nutcase on a number of topics....

beausoleil · 06-04-2002, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ShottleBop:
<strong>From <a href="http://www.prop1.org/2000/accident/facts9.htm" target="_blank">http://www.prop1.org/2000/accident/facts9.htm</a> (an antinuclear group):

</strong>

Yeah, I found that but wasn't sure how it related to a 'layer of radioactive ash'. Surelyt any 'scientist' couldt tell the difference between the result of a nuclear explosion and a leak from a reactor.

Thomas Cassidy · 06-04-2002, 02:38 PM

It could also be the result of a "natural reactor." If a sufficient quantity of fissile material is present, and a river or stream changes course to soak the fissile material, it can cause a moderating of the neutron flux cross section and produce a spontaneous reaction (Δk (effective) >.99). There is some evidence for such a "natural reactor" in Africa several thousand years ago. Producing a nuclear reaction is not all that difficult. Controlling it is the hard part.

06-03-2002, 06:19 AM	#1
New Atheist Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,704	Ancient nuclear war in India This is stupid. I found this link in another forum, and wonder if you've discussed it and torn it apart yet. <a href="http://www.rense.com/general3/8000.htm" target="_blank">http://www.rense.com/general3/8000.htm</a> The main page is even worse. I suggested in the other forum that it is perhaps the mark of a meteor crashing. I don't have that many info on the story though, so I was wondering if you can help me, because there are people in that other forum who are telling me to 'prove' that somehow an ancient civilisation lived with humans, and was destroyed in a nuclear was that was recorderd by ancient Indian historians. I don't know what to say apart from the sheer improbability of that. I asked where the remnants of this ancient civilisation are, and one guy told me perhaps they were non-physical or gaseous and their buildings made of an alloy that is destroyed in radiation... Here's the forum where I found this if you are interested. It's a PC Gaming forum, so most people there aren't THAT scientifically knowledgeable: <a href="http://www.pcgf.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=921" target="_blank">http://www.pcgf.co.uk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=921</a>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-03-2002, 09:15 AM	#2
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	Here is another one <a href="http://www.nexusmagazine.com/ancatomicwar1.html" target="_blank">http://www.nexusmagazine.com/ancatomicwar1.html</a> Who knows? Some of those ancient Hindu Vedas (sp?) contain some pretty weird stuff. Snake guys from space, flying saucers, missles exploding and causing elephants to burst into flame. Wild wild stuff!

06-03-2002, 10:59 AM	#3
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	It seems as if there are three basic phenomena being described, (1) unexplained large sheets of natural glass in India and the Sahara, (2) radioactivity in parts of India, and (3) low temperature (1100 F) metamorphic rock in Scotland and other ancient sites. Meteor impacts are one possible explanation of the large sheets of natural glass. Natural uranium deposits, or secret but modern Indian nuclear experiments can explain the second. Humans building big fires (either in siege attacks or on purpose for fortification) can explain the other. One would also imagine that geological activity could explain some of these results. One could imagine magma from an ancient Saharan mountain forming glass from natural silica, with the rock then eroding away over eons into sand, while the harder glass remains untouched. Indeed, one could even imagine a well placed oasis having a lensing effect that used hot Saharan sun to focus the heat necessary to turn sand into glass (which isn't really all that high, you can do it in a small back yard forge). One can also imagine, in Scotland, found metamorphic rock formations being chosen as good places to build forts, instead of the forts creating the rock.

06-03-2002, 02:08 PM	#4
New Atheist Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,704	That second link cropped into the discussion. Ohwilleke may I use your post there, since it is very informative?

06-04-2002, 03:06 AM	#5
beausoleil Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: US and UK Posts: 846	Libyan desert glass is dated to 28 Ma and is associated with impact structures on the basis of its composition. Here's a short piece from Christian Koeberl about it from a recent Meteoritical Society meeting... <a href="http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2000/pdf/5253.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2000/pdf/5253.pdf</a> The Nexus link's discussion of tektites and the Moon is absolute pants. Tektites are not products of lunar vulcanism - they occur in regionally well defined areas (a search under 'tektite strewn field' will provide all the information anyone could want) and are associated with impacts. Their ages preclude any associatoin with events in human history. I can't find a single scientific publication describing the radiaoctive ash layer in Rajasthan, though defining search criteria is tricky.

06-04-2002, 12:18 PM	#8
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Just to point out something about the original message... Rense.com makes Art Bell look downright rational. The author is a COMPLETE nutcase on a number of topics....

06-04-2002, 02:38 PM	#10
Thomas Cassidy Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 42	It could also be the result of a "natural reactor." If a sufficient quantity of fissile material is present, and a river or stream changes course to soak the fissile material, it can cause a moderating of the neutron flux cross section and produce a spontaneous reaction (Δk (effective) >.99). There is some evidence for such a "natural reactor" in Africa several thousand years ago. Producing a nuclear reaction is not all that difficult. Controlling it is the hard part.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.