Milton

You kinda get the idea, I see....but still wrong. Yes, there is a division that is needed. That is what our message is supposed to do, to cut right through it, deep into the whole matter. To separate light from darkness; to separate good from evil. For light cannot be in communion with darkness. What our message does is to bring to light the true person that you are. All your deeds will be brought to light.

You hate us because of our belief, but that does not justify your hate.

BadBadBad

Yes, the only true prophesy in the Bible.

Don't know if that's all it's about. I tend to see religion as the star on the star belly sneetch in the Dr Seus book. Love that story. It's my favorite one of all my kid's books.

Definitely a common effect, and I can testify to that. My wife is pretty fundy and getting more so every day. I used to be more agnostic. I thought the Bible and church were pretty silly, but I had some pretty open wishy washy ideas about God.

Then my wife started pushing church. She started to paint me with the heathen brush, and putting me down because of the color she painted me with. She started, and still is, instilling the fear of Hell into my children. She's educated my twin five year old girls, indirectly of course, that Daddy is going to hell. It breaks my heart, but one of the girls told me the other day that "Daddy is bad, bad, bad."

So, I'm an ardent atheist now, and will be forever. I asked my wife if that was her intention. Was that her duty as a christian wife married to an atheist husband. Should have seen the look on her face. So for all you christians out there, it's all because of you. I would have never come here if it weren't for you.

Virgil Tibbs

You guys just don't want to get it, I suppose. Most non-theists do not dislike theists, they dislike theism. Watching people get hurt all over the world in small and large ways because of imaginary god beliefs is saddening and depressing.

Hating theists would be almost the same as hating people in mental institutions who think they are Napoleon. Honestly I just feel bad for you all. You just put on these blinders that prevent you from examining the world around you on its own terms just so you can feel somehow more special ("saved") than those around you.

Anyway, I'll be hoping against hope you recover. I'd pray, but, you know... that doesn't do jack squat.

Tibbs

Milton

You don't get it, I have to say. To speak in derrogatory form, calling names, and many other things that are seen in these boards, is what you would call "dislike of theists."

I have to say that hate is sad and depressing.

I see...

It is funny that you would say this... Do you think that the theist don't see your arrogance in like manner? Your arrogance, I say, because you think that you know so much, as to say that you are your own god, and that there is no God.

Recover?

Oke-doke. However, I think you might do well if you give up hope on me, and move on, I am pretty sure that I am a lost case--I have entered the door, and it has been shut. Only white, padded walls are around me.

Virgil Tibbs

Arrogance, eh? Let me explain this to you: I don't know there is no god. I don't claim to know why the universe exists (here's a hint: you don't either).

I do know theism is a theory that is unfalsifiable, that has no predictive value, and that appeals to the supernatural, and that answers nothing. I judge it on that basis to be so unlikely to be true that I can dismiss it as I would the so-called invisible pink unicorn.

You on the other hand do claim to know with some mystical absolute certainty I do not have about my position that there is a god, despite having no evidence at all. So who is arrogant?

Suicide cults like Heavens Gate had no evidence either, just faith. Obviously faith as strong as or a lot stronger than yours, or they would not be willing to kill themselves for it. Why are their beliefs less valid than yours when they use identical methodology to reach their conclusion? Fo that matter, your method of believing what you prefer to be true can support any conclusion.

I, on the other hand, do not prefer to an atheist and be shunned or have to hide my (lack of) beliefs. I am an atheist because that is where a look at the evidence I now have points me.

Tibbs

p.s. To be fair, the vast majority of theists can function without harming others very much in society. So padded rooms are not necessary. There are widely varying degrees of mental illness after all, from personality disorders to completely losing touch with reality.

Edit: Btw, atheism is not a belief that human beings are "our own god(s)", it is a lack of theistic belief. Nothing more.

Cross Examiner

brettc,

Because of me? You don't go where you want to go (besides work )?

Regards,
BGiC

BadBadBad

Because of you as a group called christians, yes. I think it's OK for me to generalize that way. You're a Christian, I suppose. You are characterized by that affiliation in a general way both good and bad. If you're uncomfortable with the negative generalizations, don't associate yourself with the group. It's your choice so you say. You individually? /sarcasm on/ Well, first assure me you're not one of those other christians. Assure me you're a True Christian TM, and I'll exclude you of course. /sarcasm off/

I go where I want to go, and where I want to go is influenced by my experiences. My experiences with fundy christians have been a negative one since I was a very young child and particularly as an adult with my own children. If I could find a church with folks like a very few around here, maybe I'd go, and I might even sing a few songs about Jesus. I wouldn't believe it, but I might go home thinking it was a nice idea. Unfortunately, that's not the christianity we all know and love. The True Christian TM, is the rare bird indeed. Really so rare as to be as mythical as his religion.

So if you'll represent the group for a moment, was that your intention? Have you done what Jesus would do? Are you doing your duty under God's great plan? Perhaps in fact that's exactly what you are doing. Perhaps as it says in the Bible, God's plan for me is eternal damnation. Perhaps you are indeed leading me along that path, and perhaps that is your duty as a christian.

What would Jesus say?

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Matthew 13:11-15
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

I am the hath not, and you are the means for which God to take away even that I hath.

Cross Examiner

brettc,
I am very sorry to hear about the schism between your wife and children, you sound like you love them and might even miss them, in a way. I can only imagine. I offered the initial question only to learn more of your story.

No. I accept the good with the bad. Though I do try to add context to the "bad" since it is often times misunderstood, like the crusades or the inquisition etc. No doubt your personal bad experiences are very real. Me? A true Christian? Well, yeah. What is a "True Christian TM?" That's a new one to me.

You state rightly that you go where you want to go, an important truth. I don't know the details of your personal experiences with fundamentalists but I know they tend to frighten off seekers. On the flip side is the cultural christians. Cultural Christianity is where one goes through the motions, "singing songs about Jesus" but not doing as Jesus did. Cultural Christianity is a "nice idea" but ultimately pointless. Either the Bible is true or not. If true, then the implications should be dramatic and world-changing. If false, then there is no binding reason not to live for yourself only. In fact, one's belief system should be falsifiable in some way, otherwise it is impervious to reality and is more like blind faith, which we should all reject. I've begun to compile a list of events/discoveries that'd cause me to abandon the faith if they occured. I'd be happy to share them with you if you want. Conversely, are there conditions where you would believe? What are your major hang-ups with Christianity?

Um, sure.

Think so.

We're just supposed to obey, that's all. Tell the world, make disciples. God is not willing that any perish (2 Peter 3:9). His plan is that you not be seperated from Him, your family, other people. But he will not coerce you into His presence. The verses you list below I understand as simple acknowledgement that hell will be populated because men are free to not seek God whatsoever, as God foresaw many would not. The inverse is true also. When you look for me with all your heart, you will find me (Jeremiah 29:13 ).

How do you know this is not another invitation from God to seek again, and find Him? What could you say before God, that He didn't petition you enough?

Regards,
BGiC

BadBadBad

True Christian TM. Trade mark christian. I'm one. You're not. Can't be one unless you have the TM, and God and I own that. I'm here to license that out for God. You only get the TM if I say so, and there's a test. Gotta believe like I do or else. Believe me, anything bad about Christianity was done by people without the TM.


You are the judge of truth with respect to religion? Wow, I always thought it was more of an emotional opinion particularly with you christians, but you know the truth TM. I'll keep that in mind.

How about the sun standing still? How about dead bodies rising out of their graves? How about the ground opening up and swallowing up people that God doesn't like? If I got stuck in a whale's gut for three days and live, maybe then I'll turn my life over to God. How about actually seeing 2000 demon possessed suicidal pigs? Then there's the good 'ol walking on water trick, or how about the parting of the Red Sea. How about burning up my wife and leaving a pile of salt? You know, just any of these or he could just take time out of his busy day for a little chat. I'm easy. Really. It doesn't take much.

See above.

You do have a Bible don't you?

Romans 9 15:16
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Matthew 10:34-35
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

And please don't waste any more of your time interpreting the Bible for me. I have a mind of my own, and I learned to read when I was 5. It says what it says.



Not only will he not. He cannot. He cannot because he is a figment of your imagination.

Read it again. Maybe you'll improve your reading comprehension by reading it a second time more slowly and with a dictionary.


Well let's see. What is God? How would I differentiate him from oh, say Satan? How would I differentiate him from nothingness? How would I differentiate him from the IPU? I really don't think I can tell the difference. So, if I got an invitation from God, wow. How could I tell if it was or wasn't? That's a tough one. You've got me there.

Romans 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

I'd say "Jeez God. If you were real, why'd ya' do it?" If I were before God though, in this hypothetical, he'd be real. If so, I better look out.

Romans 9:19-21
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Rational BAC

brettc---------

I do feel sorry for you. I could not stay married to a Fundy wife---She would drive me nuts and keep me in a hell on Earth.

"L'enfer, c'est les autres"----------"Huis Clos"