Freethought & Rationalism Archive

HomoSapien · 10-07-2002, 07:52 AM

Only two of the four gospels tackle the nativity story...

Matthew has more action...there is the Three Wise Men, The Star of Bethlehem, a daring escape by Joseph, and a massacre by a mad King.

Who were the three Wise Men or Magi...presumedly Persians Astrologers who took their hobby/science very seriously.

The Star of Bethlehem...A Comet, Supernova, the alignement of Jupiter (signs of Kings) with Saturn (sign of Healing/Protection), who knows..any astronmers in the house?

And contrary to poplular belief Matthew does not say Jesus was born during Herod's reign.

It does say the Magi greeted Jesus as a "young boy" (not an infant) in front of a house, (not a stable.) Presumedly these were relatives of Joseph's or Mary's.

This is further confirmed by the fact that Herod orders the murder of children under 2 years of age. Clearly Herod nor the Wise Men know Jesus age.

And all this happens before 4 B.C.E., Herod's death. (Remeber that number 4 B.C.E., there's gonna be a quiz later.)

Enter the gospel of Luke, which contains the actual birth, a bizarre census which forces entire poplations to move across Palestine to reach their ancestral home town, and a beautiful peaceful pastoral interlude with some shepards.

It also introdues us to Governor Quirinius...and this places the date somewhere between 6 CE and 12 C.E..

So we have Jesus alive prior to 4 B.C.E. and being born after 6 C.E.

This would mean a ten year gap of....

(suddenly sound of Twilight Zone Theme music starts up)

Rod Serling steps out behind curtain:

"You open this door with key of imagination"
"Youv'e just crossed over into...The Infidel Zone."

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: HomoSapien ]

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: HomoSapien ]

10-07-2002, 12:20 PM

Only two Gospels get into the nativity scene because only two perspectives are possible. One is from the conscious mind in Luke and the other from the subconscious mind in Matthew.

Matthew shows how the magi came from Eden (subconscius mind) from where Joseph left when he began is journey West.

Herod did not reign in the subconscious mind (TOL)because Joseph was beyond theology and was led by Mary (greater serpent in the domain of Herod which is the TOL) to Bethlehem. That Herod was not in charge of the 'greater area' just means that the melancholy of Joseph was involutional and therefore more persistent; in other words, it was not a rational idea that he should get reborn.

The proper setting here is the ox and mule inside because they represent the passified male and female identity of the conscious mind (known as Adam and Eve), with the shepherds outside and no Magi inside until Epiphany which is 10 days after rebirth to ensure that the new has taken hold.

The stable of Luke indicates Joseph's extreme beyond worldly influence state of mind while the house image of Matthew is in relation to the Upper and lower houses of our subconscious and conscious minds respectively.

It is important to note that the Magi [b]entered[/] the house but not until they saw Mary and her Child. Somehere in Pasternak's "A Christmas Star" this is made clear but I must add that this poem is part of the prose and so it should be read together. Critical here is that Joseph was absent in Matthew while in Luke Joseph was present and the shepherds only looked in to admired. These shepherds here are locals and the same eidetic images as in my Judas story.

The gifts they presented were faith, hope and charity and they replaced power, wealth and beauty that had been exhausted in the conscious mind.

The census of Luke means that Joseph went to give an account of himself because he was "pregnant with dispair" (from Finnigan's Wake) and Bethlehem was the state on mind he was after birth. So we can say that Joseph was not only beyond theology but also beyond surrender and left his kingdom just like Siddharta and the Emporor Jones.

Notice how later Herod and Pilate become friends to indicate that the two minds have become of one tone.

Kosh · 10-07-2002, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
Only two Gospels get into the nativity scene because only two perspectives are possible. One is from the conscious mind in Luke and the other from the subconscious mind in Matthew.

Zometimes a baby ez just a baby!

Clutch · 10-07-2002, 01:08 PM

Mary's immaculate conception... God the Father... Electra complex... Oh, yeah -- let's talk subconscious narratives!

10-07-2002, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kosh:


Zometimes a baby ez just a baby!

Exzept that theeze waz not a baby.

Grumpy · 10-07-2002, 01:57 PM

Is there some way we can keep Amos from confusing the new posters?

Kosh · 10-07-2002, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumpy:
Is there some way we can keep Amos from confusing the new posters?

Ownly in you dweems!

never been there · 10-07-2002, 07:55 PM

The point of them beingmagi is that being Zoroastrian priests, they are portrayed as recognizing JC's divinity on behalf of the other monotheist faith.

10-07-2002, 07:52 AM	#1
HomoSapien Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: California Posts: 33	The Three Wise Men, and the Star of Bethlehem Only two of the four gospels tackle the nativity story... Matthew has more action...there is the Three Wise Men, The Star of Bethlehem, a daring escape by Joseph, and a massacre by a mad King. Who were the three Wise Men or Magi...presumedly Persians Astrologers who took their hobby/science very seriously. The Star of Bethlehem...A Comet, Supernova, the alignement of Jupiter (signs of Kings) with Saturn (sign of Healing/Protection), who knows..any astronmers in the house? And contrary to poplular belief Matthew does not say Jesus was born during Herod's reign. It does say the Magi greeted Jesus as a "young boy" (not an infant) in front of a house, (not a stable.) Presumedly these were relatives of Joseph's or Mary's. This is further confirmed by the fact that Herod orders the murder of children under 2 years of age. Clearly Herod nor the Wise Men know Jesus age. And all this happens before 4 B.C.E., Herod's death. (Remeber that number 4 B.C.E., there's gonna be a quiz later.) Enter the gospel of Luke, which contains the actual birth, a bizarre census which forces entire poplations to move across Palestine to reach their ancestral home town, and a beautiful peaceful pastoral interlude with some shepards. It also introdues us to Governor Quirinius...and this places the date somewhere between 6 CE and 12 C.E.. So we have Jesus alive prior to 4 B.C.E. and being born after 6 C.E. This would mean a ten year gap of.... (suddenly sound of Twilight Zone Theme music starts up) Rod Serling steps out behind curtain: "You open this door with key of imagination" "Youv'e just crossed over into...The Infidel Zone." [ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: HomoSapien ] [ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: HomoSapien ]</p>

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10-07-2002, 12:20 PM	#2
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Only two Gospels get into the nativity scene because only two perspectives are possible. One is from the conscious mind in Luke and the other from the subconscious mind in Matthew. Matthew shows how the magi came from Eden (subconscius mind) from where Joseph left when he began is journey West. Herod did not reign in the subconscious mind (TOL)because Joseph was beyond theology and was led by Mary (greater serpent in the domain of Herod which is the TOL) to Bethlehem. That Herod was not in charge of the 'greater area' just means that the melancholy of Joseph was involutional and therefore more persistent; in other words, it was not a rational idea that he should get reborn. The proper setting here is the ox and mule inside because they represent the passified male and female identity of the conscious mind (known as Adam and Eve), with the shepherds outside and no Magi inside until Epiphany which is 10 days after rebirth to ensure that the new has taken hold. The stable of Luke indicates Joseph's extreme beyond worldly influence state of mind while the house image of Matthew is in relation to the Upper and lower houses of our subconscious and conscious minds respectively. It is important to note that the Magi [b]entered[/] the house but not until they saw Mary and her Child. Somehere in Pasternak's "A Christmas Star" this is made clear but I must add that this poem is part of the prose and so it should be read together. Critical here is that Joseph was absent in Matthew while in Luke Joseph was present and the shepherds only looked in to admired. These shepherds here are locals and the same eidetic images as in my Judas story. The gifts they presented were faith, hope and charity and they replaced power, wealth and beauty that had been exhausted in the conscious mind. The census of Luke means that Joseph went to give an account of himself because he was "pregnant with dispair" (from Finnigan's Wake) and Bethlehem was the state on mind he was after birth. So we can say that Joseph was not only beyond theology but also beyond surrender and left his kingdom just like Siddharta and the Emporor Jones. Notice how later Herod and Pilate become friends to indicate that the two minds have become of one tone.

10-07-2002, 01:08 PM	#4
Clutch Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 3,751	Mary's immaculate conception... God the Father... Electra complex... Oh, yeah -- let's talk subconscious narratives!

10-07-2002, 01:57 PM	#6
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	Is there some way we can keep Amos from confusing the new posters?

10-07-2002, 07:55 PM	#8
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	The point of them beingmagi is that being Zoroastrian priests, they are portrayed as recognizing JC's divinity on behalf of the other monotheist faith.

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