Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Scottyman · 01-19-2003, 07:38 AM

I ran across this article about Tim LeHay and thought some of you might find it interesting. I don't know very much about him but I read some scary stuff on BBC online this morning. It seems that he is pushing very hard to make sure that people like me don't have any voice in government. He equates "secular humanists", which I consider myself to be, with the devil and so they should not have any voice in society. That's really sad because I consider myself to be a relatively moral person. I've never comitted a crime and I'm pretty much a passivist as I'm opposed to war in Iraq and very much disturbed by our current presidents policies.

It's really amazing how some people that claim to be so close to "God" have such hyprocritical views of the world and society. It seems that intolerance has no limits. I'm interested in others opinions on the subject. Does anyone know how much voice he has in pushing his agenda and where he is based out of?

Quote:

Definition:
Tim LeHay is an ultra-conservative Baptist minister whose primary training was at the even more conservative Bob Jones University. One of his most important contributions to the course of fundamentalist Christianity in the United States has been his focus on "secular humanism" as the enemy. For LeHay, secular humanism is the philosophy which underlies a vast political and social conspiracy which is aimed at destroying Christian civilization.

Once that premise is accepted, then any enemies of the agenda of right-wing Christianity can be labeled a "secular humanist" and, hence, dismissed as worth considering as a legitimate voice. There is no reason or inclination to compromise with Satan or Evil, so there is no reason or inclination to compromise with the secular humanist tools of Satan.

Today, LeHay is even better known as the theological voice within the popular Left Behind series of books. These novels depict a world where all true Christians have been "raptured," which means that they have been taken up into heaven while the rest of the human population has been "left behind" to contend with Armageddon and the Anti-Christ. LeHay's theology is not accepted by all Christians or even all conservative Christians - in particular, the books are predicated upon the idea that it is possible to read Revelations and know, in some detail, what God's plans are for humanity, and this is something rejected by many. Nevertheless, these beliefs are being popularized and spread quite widely by LeHay's novels.

Strawberry · 01-19-2003, 01:00 PM

Yikes. I always knew the "Left Behind" series was scary, but I didn't know it was that scary. Do you have a link/source for this?

Edited because I did learn grammar in elementary school, honest...

beyelzu · 01-19-2003, 01:03 PM

wow, this is another reason for me to never read those crappy revelation books. but i do find his take on secualr humanism. i have just began the process of becoming a secular humanist. i think my old philosophy of objectivism mixed with a moral subjectivity had less people attacking it. but it is extremely troubling what people will do when their goals for society are based on virtue instead of freedom.

Sabine Grant · 01-19-2003, 05:06 PM

a

Quote:

Originally posted by Scottyman
I ran across this article about Tim LeHay and thought some of you might find it interesting. I don't know very much about him but I read some scary stuff on BBC online this morning. It seems that he is pushing very hard to make sure that people like me don't have any voice in government. He equates "secular humanists", which I consider myself to be, with the devil and so they should not have any voice in society. That's really sad because I consider myself to be a relatively moral person. I've never comitted a crime and I'm pretty much a passivist as I'm opposed to war in Iraq and very much disturbed by our current presidents policies.

It's really amazing how some people that claim to be so close to "God" have such hyprocritical views of the world and society. It seems that intolerance has no limits. I'm interested in others opinions on the subject. Does anyone know how much voice he has in pushing his agenda and where he is based out of?

Do you mean Tim LaHaye? I am wondering why the extract from the article mispells his name too.

Scottyman · 01-19-2003, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabine Grant
a

Do you mean Tim LaHaye? I am wondering why the extract from the article mispells his name too.

I ran across three different spellings from different websites and articles. I would have to believe it's the same person though. I have to wonder, "what's in a name?" or for that matter, slight variations in spelling are not the issue here really.

Sabine Grant · 01-19-2003, 06:41 PM

There are an issue to me if the source of any article which pertains to present valid and documented facts about any individual cannot spell the name of that individual. Have you verified the facts presented to you? did you check the biography of both authors of the series, Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins? read both christian critics and non theist critics? how much documentation did you get actualy?

I hope you can understand why I am careful about any article written on one person or the other if the name is mispellt. That you mispelt it I can understand.... but that the author of the article who also pertains to describe biographical facts about LaHaye and uses those to portray La haye in the manner he did, mispells it, tells me clearly that he has not done much personal research. There is a difference between expressing an opinion and trying to project the idea that someone can be an expert on the character of another person. Can you see the nuance?

Also as a general comment... I believe that knowledge is acquired as we allow our minds to read all kinds of literature. Certainly criticism of any book has no validy unless you have read it. Would you allow yourself to be critical of a movie you have not seen? or comment on the taste of a dish you have not tried?

Scottyman · 01-19-2003, 08:23 PM

If you read my original post Sabine, I was trying to get others opinions about the person in the article. I didn't think that the spelling was the issue. I understand your concern but I was seeking information on the subject so I could read up and then form an opinion.

ApostateAbe · 01-19-2003, 11:45 PM

here is the original source:

http://atheism.about.com/library/glo...f_lehaytim.htm

I couldn't find any documentation

ApostateAbe · 01-19-2003, 11:56 PM

http://www.sojo.net/magazine/index.c...le/010921.html

Quote:

Listen to Tim LaHaye's breathless warning in the opening pages of the book. "Most people today do not realize what humanism really is and how it is destroying our culture, families, country�and one day the entire world," LaHaye wrote. "Most of the evils in the world today can be traced to humanism, which has taken over our government, the U.N., education, TV, and most of the other influential things of life." Perhaps it's already too late! LaHaye wrote in 1980 that unless American "Christians wake up to who the enemy really is the humanists will accomplish their goal of a complete world takeover by the year 2000." It is out of this kind of fear that many on the Religious Right have demonized those on the Left, and often those on the Left have returned the invectives.

The Admiral · 01-20-2003, 05:32 AM

I just checked our local librarys on line catalog. They list the spelling as LaHaye, which I believe is correct.

I am sorry to say that the catalog contains 81 titles by Tim and 8 by his wife Beverly.

This is a very dangerous man.

The Admiral

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01-19-2003, 01:00 PM	#2
Strawberry Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Lancaster, PA/Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 627	Yikes. I always knew the "Left Behind" series was scary, but I didn't know it was that scary. Do you have a link/source for this? Edited because I did learn grammar in elementary school, honest...

01-19-2003, 01:03 PM	#3
beyelzu Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the peach state ga I am a metaphysical naturalist Posts: 2,869	wow, this is another reason for me to never read those crappy revelation books. but i do find his take on secualr humanism. i have just began the process of becoming a secular humanist. i think my old philosophy of objectivism mixed with a moral subjectivity had less people attacking it. but it is extremely troubling what people will do when their goals for society are based on virtue instead of freedom.

01-19-2003, 06:41 PM	#6
Sabine Grant Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 32,364	There are an issue to me if the source of any article which pertains to present valid and documented facts about any individual cannot spell the name of that individual. Have you verified the facts presented to you? did you check the biography of both authors of the series, Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins? read both christian critics and non theist critics? how much documentation did you get actualy? I hope you can understand why I am careful about any article written on one person or the other if the name is mispellt. That you mispelt it I can understand.... but that the author of the article who also pertains to describe biographical facts about LaHaye and uses those to portray La haye in the manner he did, mispells it, tells me clearly that he has not done much personal research. There is a difference between expressing an opinion and trying to project the idea that someone can be an expert on the character of another person. Can you see the nuance? Also as a general comment... I believe that knowledge is acquired as we allow our minds to read all kinds of literature. Certainly criticism of any book has no validy unless you have read it. Would you allow yourself to be critical of a movie you have not seen? or comment on the taste of a dish you have not tried?

01-19-2003, 08:23 PM	#7
Scottyman Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 138	If you read my original post Sabine, I was trying to get others opinions about the person in the article. I didn't think that the spelling was the issue. I understand your concern but I was seeking information on the subject so I could read up and then form an opinion.

01-19-2003, 11:45 PM	#8
ApostateAbe Contributor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: MT Posts: 10,656	here is the original source: http://atheism.about.com/library/glo...f_lehaytim.htm I couldn't find any documentation

01-20-2003, 05:32 AM	#10
The Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Racine, Wi. USA Posts: 768	I just checked our local librarys on line catalog. They list the spelling as LaHaye, which I believe is correct. I am sorry to say that the catalog contains 81 titles by Tim and 8 by his wife Beverly. This is a very dangerous man. The Admiral

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