Shadowy Man

Hey, just because you were at the grocery store, doesn't mean you went grocery shopping!

Maybe you work there.

Liquidrage

Maybe you weren't even at the grocery store.

How many times have you heard someone telling you an urban legend as if they personally know the people envolved in the story?

I know I have.
I've had probably about 5 or 6 friends tell me they know the guy who took too much LSD and now thinks he's a glass of orange juice.
The haunted house with the flowers that reappear on the kitchen table every morning seems to be a few towns away from wherever I am, despite me living in about 10 different citites in 6 different states.

People lie. And they like to feel important.

DarkBronzePlant

A: The disciples actually saw Jesus killed and then resurrected.

B: How do you know this?

A: Because they died for saying so, and no one would die for a lie.

B: The Heaven's Gate cultists died for a lie about a UFO.

A: But the H.G. followers didn't actually see the UFO. The disciples actually saw Jesus killed and then resurrected!

B: How do you know this?...

See where that's going?

Clarice

Narrators' descriptions of their own motivations and actions cannot be relied upon, and cannot differentiate factual account from fiction.

DarkBronzePlant

I just realized that I came into this conversation late, and started questioning BreezeinaTree without first answering the original questions posted. So out of fairness & equity (not that I'll much original to say at this point):

I don't know for sure. There's almost no way, at this point, to know for sure. Most likely, your mind just ceases to be. You don't feel, you don't think, you are aware of nothing. And of course, what happens to your body depends on if your were buried, cremated, etc.
"Greater" than what?
Some atheists might disagree with this, and claim that there is or may be a higher force. Just not a "god." Me, I think that what we might call "nature" is a higher force than mere humankind; but no, I don't think that it "creates meaning." I take it this concept is uncomforable to you?
No. Perhaps your own awareness of your personal impact or meaning (along with your awareness of anything else) ceases with your death. But your meaning lives on, as long as your impact on others continues, and as long as your are remembered.
Again, this may be uncomfortable to think of, but of course, it has no bearing on the validaty of religion, just on how nice it sounds. Even still, many people are benefitting from MLK's great things today. And when they are gone, other people will benefit from their deeds. MLK himself certainly benefitted from the deeds of those before him. To me, it works quite nicely. I start my life by benefitting from others before me. And hopefully, I will pass on some good deeds to those who come after me.
We don't try hard. In fact, most of us don't try at all. God just doesn't exist. Nice as it sometimes sounds, there is just no evidence at all that he exists. Maybe some people are comforted by the idea of a god. You certainly seem to be, and you describe many others you've known who are. I know people who are as well. That has no bearing at all on his existence or lack thereof. I don't try to deny Zeus. Or unicorns. Or Santa Claus. Or Allah. Or Vishnu. Or the tooth fairy, or the Easter bunny. I just disbelieve in them, because there is no evidence, aside from a few stories and folk tales.
Most people probably would rather try to prove that God exists, I agree with you. In fact, many in this forum have. And they can't. Just wanting to prove that something exists doesn't mean that that thing exists. As an engineer, honestly, you should know better.
Because we live in America, where Christianity is the predominant religion. There is also a great deal of discussion about Islam as well, in light of current events.
When other people practice Christianity for themselves, more power to 'em. I mean, I don't get it; it makes no sense to me. But other than bumming me out that smart people can believe in fairy tales, it really doesn't affect me.

However, when I am told that to be an real American, I need to submit to a fairy tale; when laws are passed based solely on what the Bible says; when education is disrupted because some Christians don't think that what is being taught meshes with what their Bibles say; when gays are getting killed for no reason other than the 2000-year-old notion that a man should not lie with another man as with a woman; then yes, Christianity is a threat.

Hard to say. Probably better in some ways, worse in others. In general, I'd say there would be far less hatred, and greater advanced in education, science, etc. But there would probably a large number of people who, say, would have a harder time coping with tragedies and downfalls.

john_v_h

"Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."

Still doesn't sound like someone "who is trying to invent something"?

gsx1138

Can a Pagan answer some of these questions? <Slips in quietly> These are merely my opinions.
Our body decomposes to give life to other organisms. The electricity in our brain disperses to be added with like forms of energy. As for whether our conscious continues, the jury is still out for me but I tend to think not. Thus, we cease to exist in that sense.

Others have answered this. How is it that I see things on the 700 club about the dangers of Goddess worship and Wiccans worship Satan? Most christians see any belief that is not their own as a threat.

Personally, I believe that we would be much furthur along in our evolution than we are now. Christians are too quick to forget that they had a 1,000 years of rule over almost every aspect of life in Europe with dismal results.

For awhile I absolutely hated christianity and anything associated with it belief. I've softened my view however, since I've met a few that aren't hung up on thinking that they are right and everyone else it wrong. I'm new here also but it is nice to see you here as well.

Perchance

Breeze,

Just thought of a question that I wanted to ask you (while reading back through your OP). You don't need to answer it if you don't have time, but I was curious.

You mention MLK Jr., a well-known believer in God. Do you think that he could have done the same things if he had been an atheist? Do you think his faith in God was somehow integral to his accomplishments, or is somehow integral to the memory of his accomplishments?

I have my own answer- that it depends on the person, and that some people might need to be fired by intense religious faith while others can do it pretty easily without any such crutch- but I wanted to hear yours.

-Perchance.

Goliath

DivineOb,

ROFL! If this were the case, then fiction writers would have a hell of a time, wouldn't they?!

"Lemme see, I wanna write a novel about this guy who is going through trouble in his marriage. What is he thinking? Oh wait, since he's a fictional character (and therefore not real) it is absolutely impossible to describe any thoughts that this character may have in my story!"

Theist's response: "No, you are absolutely incorrect. The Holy Spirit fills my heart and allows me to witness the resurrection of Christ! YOU CANNOT DENY MY EXPERIENCES! BURN, YOU PATHETIC UNBELIEVING SCUMBAG!!"

Hmmm, maybe the point of the "theist" rhetoric isn't setting in, so I'll spell it out for you: If you grant that the xian god exists (and, thusly, that the supernatural exists) how can you prove my theist alter ego's claims to be false?

For that matter, as soon as you posit something supernatural, how can you stop the descent from a universe with predictable, verifiable properties to a universe that exists only in your mind?

Ummmm..EXCUSE ME?! Why does your profile read thusly (emphasis mine):

Do you enjoy lying to me?

Sincerely,

Goliath

(Edited to fix UBB code)

[ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: Goliath ]</p>

K

I think we've lost BreezeinaTree.