HelenM

K,

Quite honestly I don't know many three year olds who would enjoy the amount of sitting still and being quiet that most services entail. And many congregations don't really want kids in there either. They sometimes have great nurseries/kids programs but - you would have to consider whether you want to take him there and him like it so much he wants to go back...and besides, you might not appreciate what they tell 3 year olds. Whatever it is will be of course a very scaled down simplified version of what they believe.

Rather than go at a service time, what you might want to do is call them during the week and see whether you can take him inside the impressive buildings, for a quick look/tour (nothing formal, just a look), when there's nothing going on.

If you tell him that being still and quiet is involved, if he wants to go when people are in there, he might decide it's not for him...or if he's not able to imagine that, one service will probably be more than enough for him...

Just to clarify: I'm all for parents taking small children into a service if they are willing to put the effort in to keep the children quiet enough that it doesn't unreasonably distract everyone else.

I'm not trying to put you off - just to be realistic. I think that if you do go with a three year old you'll be too busy trying to keep him happy and quiet enough, to observe the customs, anyway...and you aren't likely to be especially inconspicuous...

Anyway that's just my reaction to what you said. If you do take him and he's able to sit through a service, then - great! But I could imagine that you could satisfy his curiosity with a description and maybe a quick look not during a service.

When he's older, I don't see anything wrong in going to some services and then discussing them after, if he still has a strong interest and you're willing to do that.

love
Helen

K

Helen:

The issues you've talked about are the reasons I've been a little slow to get started. He has seen the inside of several churches after hours. I think the problem is that he might be feeling that he's missing out on something when he sees a lot of people all dressed up headed into these buildings.

You're definitely right that I don't want to have him go to the kids' areas. I'd like him to be able to observe without being pulled in with play time. Most people could get a child to believe anything using that method. I would like it best if we could go to a regular service and leave when he started getting antsy. I imagine most places would consider this rude.

MarcoPolo

Actually, I bet most people would appreciate that. Why would taking a noisy child out be rude?

wildernesse

K:

I don't know that many churches would think that it is rude if you sat near the back and quietly left if there was a "problem". People leave church early some around here--for all different kinds of reasons. If you sit on the first row, in the middle, and your child says loudly in the middle of the service "This is so dumb! You were right about there being no God!" and then you triumphly march out with a grin on your face--that, that might be considered suspect! haha.

I don't know how much of a church service a 3 year old would probably understand--although some churches have childrens' time with some kind of childrens' sermon during the worship service. That might be something that he could understand and could talk with you about. Otherwise, I think that most kids are bored in church--most of my childhood, I brought a book and read during church.


--tibac

K

wildernesse:

I wouldn't be taking him to show that there is no God. My wife and I have never said anything to him about there not being a God. We also have never implied that there is. I know he is too young to get anything out of church now. I just don't want him to feel that we're keeping him out and I don't want him to be afraid to go into one when he reaches the age where he'll naturally start wondering about such things.

Infinity Lover

I'd want my hypothetical (huray he hasn't been breeding... yet ) kids to be the best them they could be.
Which would include being happy off course.

I guess I'd be cool about it, and let them put two and two together.
Would a Christian church accept an atheist, the way I'd accept Christian offspring?

I'd put that ball called dilema in their court and let them wrestle with it. How else are they going to learn whatever there is to learn?

But that's the kind of lamo I am, I guess.

Check it out Helen; little leaps of faith. (just kidding)

Marcel

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: Infinity Lover ]</p>

MrDarwin

Hey, the Bible itself gives some pretty clear-cut guidance for parents who are dealing with rebellious kids in Deuteronomy 21: 18-21:

David Bowden

Yup; I'm about talked out on this one, personally. Towards the end of my rewrite above I got thick-headed and bleary-eyed, and I seriously wondered whether I wasn't just stating the (fairly) obvious. Or else paying too much attention to other topics deserving separate threads.

Yes. We do the best we can, for their sakes as we understand things.

In a sort of quirky way I'm reminded of something I read and committed to memory years ago:

--J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

I'm not sure exactly why that came to mind, or what relevance it has, other than "perform stewardship (reinforcing intellectual integrity in the current context) in the hopes that our progeny will have opportunity to benefit from it someday," but there it is anyway.

Good topic, Helen. I'm saving it and will probably turn to it when the time comes for me to think more on the issue with regard to my own children.

-David

wildernesse

K:

I'm sorry if I implied that you were indoctrinating your child--that wasn't my intention. I just wanted to give an exaggerated example of what might be considered a rude leave-taking at most churches.

I admire that you are open to letting your son learn about all kinds of ideas, and I hope that I allow my children the same freedom when they spring into existence (totally pain-free!). I'm sorry if I offended you.

--tibac

HelenM

Only if you sit in the front row

People come in and leave throughout the service at my church, and some for the very that they've stayed in as long as their child could bear and now they need to leave before he or she gets noisy or restless enough to be bothering others significantly. My last church would ask people with children to sit towards the back or in the balcony. Although - being further back means the child is not as involved, which is unfortunate - but - I think that's better than having a child at the front whose noise and movement is seen by everyone behind them whose attention is towards the front of the service (which it normally would be).

If you're unsure why not call the specific place and ask them about bringing a child into the service and leaving if the child gets noisy? I expect their answer will make it clear whether that's commonplace/accepted policy there or whether the very idea of a three year old in the adult service caused their receptionist to faint with horror (i.e. you hear &lt;BRIEF SILENCE&gt;,&lt;THUD&gt;,&lt;CLUNK&gt; as the receptionist faints and hits the floor first, then the phone receiver... )

love
Helen

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: HelenM ]</p>