echidna

I see, that'd be "all of the above". I'm more psychic than I thought. I never took Anatomy 101, so maybe you're right.

Seraphim

By echidna

I see, that'd be "all of the above". I'm more psychic than I thought.

My reply : Hmph ... maybe ... God willing, you will step on my friend's shoe one of this days and see from his point of view.

I never took Anatomy 101, so maybe you're right.

My reply : hmph ... your choice how to approach life, not mine ...

So, are we finish talking on the topic?

Lobstrosity

I hope you see how hypocritical this is...

Skeptics don't close their minds to new things in an attempt to cling to antiquated views. This is a common but highly erroneous misconception. Skeptics simply believe the truth that is likely to be true, not the truth that seems fun or promising. You are someone who would be David Copperfield's desciple in a microsecond were he to claim that his talents are genuine. You would probably give him your life-savings and drool at his feet. Hell, I actually wouldn't be surprised to find out that you actually believe his talents are genuine. That's what happens when you are willing to let your emotions cloud your ability to use rational judgment and reason.

echidna

Oooh oooh, opportunity to name-drop by association. A good friend of mine routinely corresponds with David Copperfield over some of his illusions. Resuming the merriment ...

echidna

To be fair, my replies are generally along the lines of deliberate fraud, which of course we have no way of disproving on Seraphim's part, just as there is no way to disprove my claims since I can similarly fall back on any number of alibis when a claim cannot be tested.

But actually from past threads I happen to believe that Seraphim has actually seen these visions, maybe even heard voices, I can't recall.

Which is the other half of this issue (and arguably the more morally problematical), that of brain dysfunction. Not unique to the mentally ill, truth is we all suffer from mental and perceptive errors, often from altered brain states, tiredness, alcohol, emotion, etc etc. We have a choice, to believe that our brains are infallible devices, impossible to err, that what we perceive is reality indeed, or that on occasion our brains can deceive us.

"I was sure I left my keys on the table, but now they're gone."

Explanation #1 : They transcendentally levitated back into my pocket.
Explanation #2 : Space aliens snatched them.
Explanation #3 : My memory is sometimes wrong.

Further, anyone who spends time in the intellectual disabilities sector, as I do, would be well-familiar with various delusional illnesses such as schizophrenia, where patients are absolutely convinced of a personal reality unique to themselves. Is this reality true ? Subjectively for them, yes. But for the rest of us, demonstrably no.

Mad Kally

This is the reason I asked him if the TV was talking to him in another thread. Reasoning with a delusional schizophrenic is like trying to bail out the ocean with a paper cup.

Echidna,
I'll bet you already knew I was going to say this: You name dropping braggart! What do you mean Copperfield's tricks aren't real?

BTW, I did take anatomy & physiology 101 & 102. (A&P combined) I even had my very own cadaver. Now that's exciting.

echidna

Actually 2 of my friends are members of the Magic Circle which is Australia’s magician’s guild.

I only hear, but it sounds like an amazing network of people devoted to deceiving the senses of others, dedicated artists cooperating and striving to perfect new illusions, and with a shitload lot more integrity than any strategic marketing campaign I’ve ever seen I might add.

I’ve heard it said that in some ways children are far harder to impress than adults. If a ball disappears from one hand, of course it must be in the other. They are far more accepting of the information they interpret from their senses, so surprise is not so easy to extract. Having watched 20 hours of Power Puff cartoons per week, the average 5 year old is much less impressed with David Copperfield flying across the stage. Big deal, she'll say. The ability to objectively question is (usually) learnt as one grows up. But until then children’s appeal of innocence largely lies in their unquestioning acceptance of any number of fantasies which they might be presented with.

()

Seraphim

By Lobstrosity

I hope you see how hypocritical this is...

Skeptics don't close their minds to new things in an attempt to cling to antiquated views. This is a common but highly erroneous misconception. Skeptics simply believe the truth that is likely to be true, not the truth that seems fun or promising. You are someone who would be David Copperfield's desciple in a microsecond were he to claim that his talents are genuine. You would probably give him your life-savings and drool at his feet. Hell, I actually wouldn't be surprised to find out that you actually believe his talents are genuine. That's what happens when you are willing to let your emotions cloud your ability to use rational judgment and reason.

My reply : Bullshit ...

Skeptics is just another words for "those who are too lazy to think".

If a scientists cannot achieve something inside the lab which others claims can be done outside, he or she will find a way to make the experiment work outside the lab as well. THAT is the mark of a true scientists and one who seeks answers.

Listening to a skeptic says "It doesn't work in the lab, so it doesn't exist" is SAME with a 3 years old saying "If you are not playing by my rule, I won't play with you." Rational indeed (Sarcasm for those who skeptics of above remark).

By echidna

To be fair, my replies are generally along the lines of deliberate fraud, which of course we have no way of disproving on Seraphim's part, just as there is no way to disprove my claims since I can similarly fall back on any number of alibis when a claim cannot be tested.

But actually from past threads I happen to believe that Seraphim has actually seen these visions, maybe even heard voices, I can't recall.

Which is the other half of this issue (and arguably the more morally problematical), that of brain dysfunction. Not unique to the mentally ill, truth is we all suffer from mental and perceptive errors, often from altered brain states, tiredness, alcohol, emotion, etc etc. We have a choice, to believe that our brains are infallible devices, impossible to err, that what we perceive is reality indeed, or that on occasion our brains can deceive us.

"I was sure I left my keys on the table, but now they're gone."

Explanation #1 : They transcendentally levitated back into my pocket.
Explanation #2 : Space aliens snatched them.
Explanation #3 : My memory is sometimes wrong.

Further, anyone who spends time in the intellectual disabilities sector, as I do, would be well-familiar with various delusional illnesses such as schizophrenia, where patients are absolutely convinced of a personal reality unique to themselves. Is this reality true ? Subjectively for them, yes. But for the rest of us, demonstrably no.

My reply : Fine by me, I lose nothing by your opinion, and my friend doesn't lose anything by your opinion either because I will not reflect your shallow views on him.

By Mad Kally

This is the reason I asked him if the TV was talking to him in another thread. Reasoning with a delusional schizophrenic is like trying to bail out the ocean with a paper cup.

My reply : And I told you NO because not every parents will accuse their children to be possessed. TVs only talk to people who is in such conditions.

echidna

That’s an innovative use of the word “shallow”. Let’s see …

Response #1 : Without question, your friend is utterly correct in his claims despite the lack of any evidence for their veracity or any precedent which cannot be explained by other means.

Response #2 : I want to test & seek evidence for these claims in order to identify if they are true or not, because otherwise they can be explained in other ways.

Seraphim, you appear to have mistaken S&S for the Blind Gullibility Forum.

For your suggestion to be true (and immune to scrutiny as you would prefer it to remain), so too must I accept every other nutjob claim without evidence. The greenhouse effect will cause the earth to explode, brightly coloured t-shirts will improve my health, Elvis lives in Tonga, the Earth is flat, my mother was a space alien, the sky will fall on my head tomorrow, yadda yadda.

Now, I daresay your logic can immediately accept these claims without evidence or wicked scepticism, but call me shallow, mine can’t.

Maybe you’d care to try … http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/crackpot.htm

I’d rate yours as well over 200 points, but I’m not certain.

Mad Kally

See what I mean about bailing out the ocean with a paper cup?

P.S. LOL @ the igNobel awards echidna!