Freethought & Rationalism Archive

pdwblw · 08-20-2002, 06:12 AM

The Bible tells us of a loving God who loves all people and sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins. This same Jesus rose again from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father. Man chose to sin against God. God does not force anyone to love Him. He gives us the choice. He did not have to send His Son, He chose to because He loves us. He loves us enough to allow us to go to hell if we so choose. He doesn't want us to be forced to love Him and serve Him. What a loving, wonderful God. That is the God we can serve.

Rational Ag · 08-20-2002, 06:29 AM

Moby Dick tells us a story about Ishmael, a schoolmaster who gave up his comfortable life to make a life for himself at sea. Ishmael met some gentlemen, and set out for sea on a sailboat. Captain Ahab (an old, bitter man) was aboard, and he announced that one ounce of Gold would belong to the man that found Moby Dick. It was prophesied that Ahab would die, but they sailed on after Moby Dick. Lightning hit the ship and all three masts went up in flames, but still they sailed on in the face of danger. Ahab finally tracked down Moby Dick and harpooned him, but Moby Dick destroyed thier boat in the process. Moby Dick was wounded, but not destroyed. After the men were rescued, they continued to pursue after Moby Dick. The many parts of the prophecy began to come true, and all of the crew (including Ahab) was killed except Ishmael.

Isn't fiction wonderful?

-Rational Ag

Viti · 08-20-2002, 06:31 AM

Welcome to the IIDB, PDWBLW.

I'm pretty sure this post will be moved to Rants, Raves, and Preaching as this forum is for discussing various evidences for the existence of deities.

I do look forward to discussing with you there!

Hobbs · 08-20-2002, 06:37 AM

The Bible also tells us that Pharaoh repeatedly was willing to agree to let Moses and his people go, but God hardened his heart, and then punished all of Egypt (including killing children) to punish Pharaoh's hard heart which God had hardened.

The Bible also tells us that God moved King David to take a census, and that taking this census was (for some unstated reason) a sin (even though God himself was behind it), and he punished David by killing 70,000 of his subjects.

This is a god worthy of anyone's worship?

Note to moderators: this doesn't look like an "existence of God" issue. It probably belongs in the "miscellaneous religion discussions" file. I hope it doesn't degenerate into "rants, raves, and preaching" status.

Steven Carr · 08-20-2002, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pdwblw:
The Bible tells us of a loving God who loves all people and sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins.

I think you might have a different Bible to me.

My copy says in Romans 9:13 'Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'

Could you check you have the latest edition, with the errata pages at the back?

Vibr8gKiwi · 08-20-2002, 06:44 AM

Do they tattoo that speech onto the backs of everyone's eyelids when they plug you into the communal religious Borg cube or something? Every time one of you wanders over here, we hear the same thing.

Sorry, that wasn't very nice of me to say. It's true though.

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]

Edit to add...

Hey wait a sec, this is the guy who BH introduced on another thread as a Assembly of God minister? Well that's not a nice welcome from me I guess, but geez, this post looks like an amateur drive-by preach-and-run. I'll shut up for a bit and see if anything with more substance appears.

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]

WJ · 08-20-2002, 06:56 AM

Yes, the existence of God/Love is quite a perplexing phenomena in the mind's of humans. While it is true that the illusion of free-will is real, the illusion of love remains a matter of being all in one's mind. Or is it 'real' concept?

Could there be any connection between these so-called metaphysical phenomena in life?

MrDarwin · 08-20-2002, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pdwblw:
What a loving, wonderful God. That is the God we can serve.

Please take a look at what I posted in <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=50&t=000555" target="_blank">this thread</a> and remind me why you believe God is so loving and wonderful? Because the world this God created sure doesn't show it.

reklaw67 · 08-20-2002, 07:37 AM

Having just watched Schindlers List again recently
I'm reminded again of the joys of unbelief. At least unbelief in any fundamental assertion of god.

Believing that the millions of people who were tortured and died now get to suffer for eternity is not a pleasant thought. What a blatant contradiction to the "god" you speak of. Even if fundamentalism was correct (which it certainly is not) the jews who died in the holocaust surely didnt choose to go to hell as you say. Perhaps they were deceived or led astray but it falls far short of the narrow view you must accept to conclude how wonderful god is.

Believing in a somewhat different god or no god at all is much different then seeing "heaven" and "hell" before you and "choosing" to go to hell.

bluefugue · 08-20-2002, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational Ag:
Moby Dick tells us a story about Ishmael, a schoolmaster who gave up his comfortable life to make a life for himself at sea. Ishmael met some gentlemen, and set out for sea on a sailboat. Captain Ahab (an old, bitter man) was aboard, and he announced that one ounce of Gold would belong to the man that found Moby Dick. It was prophesied that Ahab would die, but they sailed on after Moby Dick. Lightning hit the ship and all three masts went up in flames, but still they sailed on in the face of danger. Ahab finally tracked down Moby Dick and harpooned him, but Moby Dick destroyed thier boat in the process. Moby Dick was wounded, but not destroyed. After the men were rescued, they continued to pursue after Moby Dick. The many parts of the prophecy began to come true, and all of the crew (including Ahab) was killed except Ishmael.

Isn't fiction wonderful?

-Rational Ag

ROFL!

08-20-2002, 06:12 AM	#1
pdwblw Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 16	A loving God The Bible tells us of a loving God who loves all people and sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins. This same Jesus rose again from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father. Man chose to sin against God. God does not force anyone to love Him. He gives us the choice. He did not have to send His Son, He chose to because He loves us. He loves us enough to allow us to go to hell if we so choose. He doesn't want us to be forced to love Him and serve Him. What a loving, wonderful God. That is the God we can serve.

08-20-2002, 06:44 AM	#6
Vibr8gKiwi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: CA, USA Posts: 543	Do they tattoo that speech onto the backs of everyone's eyelids when they plug you into the communal religious Borg cube or something? Every time one of you wanders over here, we hear the same thing. Sorry, that wasn't very nice of me to say. It's true though. [ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ] Edit to add... Hey wait a sec, this is the guy who BH introduced on another thread as a Assembly of God minister? Well that's not a nice welcome from me I guess, but geez, this post looks like an amateur drive-by preach-and-run. I'll shut up for a bit and see if anything with more substance appears. [ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]</p>

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08-20-2002, 06:29 AM	#2
Rational Ag Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 136	Moby Dick tells us a story about Ishmael, a schoolmaster who gave up his comfortable life to make a life for himself at sea. Ishmael met some gentlemen, and set out for sea on a sailboat. Captain Ahab (an old, bitter man) was aboard, and he announced that one ounce of Gold would belong to the man that found Moby Dick. It was prophesied that Ahab would die, but they sailed on after Moby Dick. Lightning hit the ship and all three masts went up in flames, but still they sailed on in the face of danger. Ahab finally tracked down Moby Dick and harpooned him, but Moby Dick destroyed thier boat in the process. Moby Dick was wounded, but not destroyed. After the men were rescued, they continued to pursue after Moby Dick. The many parts of the prophecy began to come true, and all of the crew (including Ahab) was killed except Ishmael. Isn't fiction wonderful? -Rational Ag

08-20-2002, 06:31 AM	#3
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Welcome to the IIDB, PDWBLW. I'm pretty sure this post will be moved to Rants, Raves, and Preaching as this forum is for discussing various evidences for the existence of deities. I do look forward to discussing with you there!

08-20-2002, 06:37 AM	#4
Hobbs Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 929	The Bible also tells us that Pharaoh repeatedly was willing to agree to let Moses and his people go, but God hardened his heart, and then punished all of Egypt (including killing children) to punish Pharaoh's hard heart which God had hardened. The Bible also tells us that God moved King David to take a census, and that taking this census was (for some unstated reason) a sin (even though God himself was behind it), and he punished David by killing 70,000 of his subjects. This is a god worthy of anyone's worship? Note to moderators: this doesn't look like an "existence of God" issue. It probably belongs in the "miscellaneous religion discussions" file. I hope it doesn't degenerate into "rants, raves, and preaching" status.

08-20-2002, 06:56 AM	#7
WJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 812	Yes, the existence of God/Love is quite a perplexing phenomena in the mind's of humans. While it is true that the illusion of free-will is real, the illusion of love remains a matter of being all in one's mind. Or is it 'real' concept? Could there be any connection between these so-called metaphysical phenomena in life?

08-20-2002, 07:37 AM	#9
reklaw67 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: goshen, IN. USA Posts: 24	Having just watched Schindlers List again recently I'm reminded again of the joys of unbelief. At least unbelief in any fundamental assertion of god. Believing that the millions of people who were tortured and died now get to suffer for eternity is not a pleasant thought. What a blatant contradiction to the "god" you speak of. Even if fundamentalism was correct (which it certainly is not) the jews who died in the holocaust surely didnt choose to go to hell as you say. Perhaps they were deceived or led astray but it falls far short of the narrow view you must accept to conclude how wonderful god is. Believing in a somewhat different god or no god at all is much different then seeing "heaven" and "hell" before you and "choosing" to go to hell.

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