Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Thor Q. Mada · 07-02-2002, 06:41 PM

How about the priests in Northern Europe who preached a crusade against Bolshevism not longer than 60 years ago, and enticed countless young men to join the German army in their Russian campaign??
Was that maybe not a crime??
How a bout the dubious (to say the least) behavior of the then Pope in his relations with the Germans?? Do you really believe he didn't know what was going on in Germany?? Was that not a crime??
How about the attempt (with success) by the church over the ages to control and steer knowledge. Was that not a crime??

Autonemesis · 07-02-2002, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sighhswolf:
You fail to take into account the fact that if there were these terrible things happening to
mankind, and they were injured or hurt in some way by Christians, it was because god had Judged them to be worthy of his wrath, and he instructed his followers to carry out his vengence.
So the idea of atrocities visited upon heathens by christians is absurd.

And even if these so-called Christians that prayed to God, believed in Jesus, payed their tithes, went to church and practiced the rituals, if they committed atrocities like that, they weren't true Christians, because a true Christian would never commit such atrocities, so again you lose. You atheists just don't get it, do you? You are losers on the losing team with a losing game plan. Losers.

Thor Q. Mada · 07-02-2002, 06:45 PM

Sorry, but I forgot a few :
How about the stance of the church in today's world against contraception, causing millions to be born in abbysimal poverty, as well as the pandemic spread of aids?? Is that not a crime??
How about covering-up for pedophile priests??
Is that not a crime??

Thor Q. Mada · 07-02-2002, 06:50 PM

Quote:

And even if these so-called Christians that prayed to God, believed in Jesus, payed their tithes, went to church and practiced the rituals, if they committed atrocities like that, they weren't true Christians, because a true Christian would never commit such atrocities, so again you lose. You atheists just don't get it, do you? You are losers on the losing team with a losing game plan. Losers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are right King Bud, but when I die, it will be with a smile on my face. At least I have tried my best. Not bad for a loser.

Autonemesis · 07-02-2002, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bede:
Certainly, if the sceptical standards he uses towards the NT were also applied to his claims, we'd find it was all myth and polemic too.

NOGO · 07-02-2002, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Bede
If you want to say Christianity was responcible for atrocities fine. But you are going to have to accept that every other system is as well which doesn't get us very far. Just ask Palestinians what they think of Western liberalism.

We must be wary of capitulation.

Are you saying that after all is said and done Christianity cannot make a better claim to morality than any other system out there.

At par with Atilla the Hun and Genghis Khan.

If atheists point to Christian atrocities is it because Christians have setup such a high moral standard by which all are judged.

The holier than thou attitude.
We are Christians; we are so righteous.

Please explain the connection between Palestinians and Western Liberalism.

Autonemesis · 07-02-2002, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thor Q. Mada:
Not bad for a loser.

I guess I should have added a smiley.

Or maybe your sarcasm detector is faulty.

Or maybe I haven't posted enough so that you would have known I had to be joking.

Or maybe you're joking in return and I am the one who is

...

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: Kind Bud ]</p>

Anunnaki · 07-02-2002, 07:08 PM

Quote:

It seems only liberal Christians such as Bede and I, and a few of the more enlightened atheists here, are capable of actually accepting the evidence as it stands.

I don`t think this is true at all. If you and the "enlightened" atheists are both capable of accepting the evidence for Christianity as it stands,you would leave Christianity in the dust just like we have.

I actually think the fundy Christian apologists are more noble than the liberals who are constantly changing and/or ditching parts of the whole Christian story when these parts have become too difficult or flat out impossible to defend anymore in the modern world.
I don`t have a very high opinion of people who have to keep changing the rules in order to keep their team in the game.

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: Anunnaki ]</p>

Thor Q. Mada · 07-02-2002, 07:09 PM

Kind Bud,

I knew you were joking but unfortunately you wrote the truth. Christians don't commit atrocities, because those that commit atrocities are not true Christians. A moving target!!!

Tercel · 07-02-2002, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anunnaki:
I actually think the fundy Christian apologists are more noble than the liberals who are constantly changing and/or ditching parts of the whole Christian story when these parts have become too difficult or flat out impossible to defend anymore in the modern world.

Which parts would these be? If you think historically Christianity has been Fundamentalist and that what is now called "liberal" Christianity is something modern, then I can only suggest you don't know your Church history very well.

"Now the reason of the erroneous apprehension of all these points on the part of those whom we have mentioned above, is no other than this, that holy Scripture is not understood by them according to its spiritual, but according to its literal meaning." St Origen (early 3rd Century)

"Whatever there is in the word of God that cannot, when taken literally, be referred either to purity of life or soundness of doctrine, you may set down as figurative. Purity of life has reference to the love of God and one's neighbour; soundness of doctrine to the knowledge of God and one's neighbour." St Augustine (4th Century)

"Very often many things are said by the Holy Scriptures and in it many names are used not in a literal sense... those who have a mind understand this" St Isaac the Syrian (7th Century)

I do little "changing and/or ditching parts of the whole Christian story when these parts" are too difficult to defend that has not already been done by the Christian writers a millennia or more ago. The idea that the modern educated and scientific mind can no longer handle stories bought into by the primatives demonstrates a profound ignorance of Christian beliefs and writings over the past 2000 years.

It is the Fundamentalists with their 19th Century invention of literalism that are the ones that are making changes to the Christian tradition.

Quote:

I don`t have a very high opinion of people who have to keep changing the rules in order to keep their team in the game.

Which rules would these be exactly? And why shouldn't I be allowed to believe whatever I find convincing without leaving my brain at a Church door and buying into every single millennia old myth in the Bible?

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: Tercel ]</p>

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07-02-2002, 06:41 PM	#41
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	How about the priests in Northern Europe who preached a crusade against Bolshevism not longer than 60 years ago, and enticed countless young men to join the German army in their Russian campaign?? Was that maybe not a crime?? How a bout the dubious (to say the least) behavior of the then Pope in his relations with the Germans?? Do you really believe he didn't know what was going on in Germany?? Was that not a crime?? How about the attempt (with success) by the church over the ages to control and steer knowledge. Was that not a crime??

07-02-2002, 06:45 PM	#43
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Sorry, but I forgot a few : How about the stance of the church in today's world against contraception, causing millions to be born in abbysimal poverty, as well as the pandemic spread of aids?? Is that not a crime?? How about covering-up for pedophile priests?? Is that not a crime??

07-02-2002, 07:09 PM	#49
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Kind Bud, I knew you were joking but unfortunately you wrote the truth. Christians don't commit atrocities, because those that commit atrocities are not true Christians. A moving target!!!

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