Freethought & Rationalism Archive

semyaza · 01-06-2003, 09:33 PM

We all know the stats - Christianity is in serious decline in Europe, soon to be forgotten (if not gone).

My question is this: is Europe seeing a trend towards secular humanism and rationalism, or is Christianity simply being replaced with something equally as kooky?

I ask because of the recent revelations about the Blairs' 'spiritual side'...

BTW: I'm originally from South Africa, but have lived in the US for close to nine years now.

Proxima Centauri · 01-07-2003, 08:04 AM

Where I live in Birmingham I feel that Christianity is being replaced by secularism within white society.Tony Blair's attempts to hold back the tide are as unsuccessful as those of King Canute.
I cannot speak for ethnic minority society or for other parts of Britain. I think Birmingham is typical of English big cities.

Taffsadar · 01-07-2003, 08:55 AM

Nope it's replaced with secularism, atleast around here (Sweden).

Egoinos · 01-07-2003, 08:56 AM

It mostly seems to be being replaced with apathy rather than outright secularism or atheism.

Though there is a possibility that numbers of churchgoers may grow following Rowan Williams becoming the Archbishop of Canterbury. He is certainly a lot more interesting and effective than George Carey was, and his involvement in the anti-war side of things may gain him more support. Tony Blair has been an absolute idiot towards him - he sent out a press release basically saying "the Prime Minister is a Christian too" in response to Williams' comments about just wars and Christianity. If Blair really thinks he can argue theology with Rowan Williams, then the man is an idiot - not only will he annoy everyone by messing about with the church, which is not part of his job, but he will also be roundly beaten as Rowan Williams is quite a respected theologian in his own right.

That was just an aside though

Per · 01-07-2003, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taffsadar
Nope it's replaced with secularism, atleast around here (Sweden).

Yes, I would say that about here, too. Of course some will always 'just' be apathetic, instead of 'conciously' atheistic, but it's not really something you can look up in statistics.

Miss Piggy · 01-08-2003, 12:27 PM

Here in Finland most people are members of the Lutheran church, but for most of them, religion is just wedding etc. ceremonies. Gallups say that 70 % of Finns believe in some kind of a "higher power", but for most of them, religion is not that important.

I think the situation here is quite similar to Sweden and Denmark. People are just indifferent, not clearly atheistic. However, the general opinion clearly rejects e.g. creationism; that seems to be typical here in Europe.

Taffsadar · 01-10-2003, 04:15 AM

I had my first biology class today (well at this level in school) and creation wasn't even mentioned (exept from the history part). Instead we discuss possibilities like bacterias coming from a comet as possible life causers etc.

Eudaimonist · 01-10-2003, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Taffsadar
Nope it's replaced with secularism, atleast around here (Sweden).

Since I now intend to move from America to Sweden in order to be with my girlfriend, I'm curious what you mean. What is this "secularism" in your opinion? What has replaced religious belief? What is the emotional core of people's lives there?

(For others: church attendence in Sweden: 10%. A study from 1996 shows: "Do you believe in God?" Yes: 48%. No: 38%. Don't know: 14%.)

Stephen T-B · 01-10-2003, 05:30 AM

II can�t lay my hands on the details, but various polls conducted in the UK show that most people believe in a god. But outside Moslem and Afro-Caribbean communities, it is apparently in a vague, non-committal sort of way, much as most people wouldn�t walk under a ladder because it�s �bad luck.�
Church-going is generally in decline, and the Roman Catholics are having a problem, I�ve read, recruiting young men to the priesthood.
Our tabloids (big circulation, sensationalising papers) love stories about vicars running off with parishioners� wives or having sex-change operations - any church-based scandal is like manna from heaven. I think the long-term accumulative effect has been to introduce a deep public cynicism, and this has been combined with a general decline in respect for all forms of authority, including the Church.

Miss Piggy · 01-10-2003, 06:15 AM

Sex-change operations, wow

Here in Finland it's mainly about pastors who try to become too intimate with 15-year-old girls in the summer camp etc. etc. But then there also was a pastor, who acted as suteneur for his wife. So maybe this is not such a boring country, after all...

01-06-2003, 09:33 PM	#1
semyaza Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 104	Question for non-Americans Re Christianity in Europe We all know the stats - Christianity is in serious decline in Europe, soon to be forgotten (if not gone). My question is this: is Europe seeing a trend towards secular humanism and rationalism, or is Christianity simply being replaced with something equally as kooky? I ask because of the recent revelations about the Blairs' 'spiritual side'... BTW: I'm originally from South Africa, but have lived in the US for close to nine years now.

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01-07-2003, 08:04 AM	#2
Proxima Centauri Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: England, the EU. Posts: 2,403	Where I live in Birmingham I feel that Christianity is being replaced by secularism within white society.Tony Blair's attempts to hold back the tide are as unsuccessful as those of King Canute. I cannot speak for ethnic minority society or for other parts of Britain. I think Birmingham is typical of English big cities.

01-07-2003, 08:55 AM	#3
Taffsadar Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The land of the free, Sweden Posts: 27	Nope it's replaced with secularism, atleast around here (Sweden).

01-07-2003, 08:56 AM	#4
Egoinos Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 423	It mostly seems to be being replaced with apathy rather than outright secularism or atheism. Though there is a possibility that numbers of churchgoers may grow following Rowan Williams becoming the Archbishop of Canterbury. He is certainly a lot more interesting and effective than George Carey was, and his involvement in the anti-war side of things may gain him more support. Tony Blair has been an absolute idiot towards him - he sent out a press release basically saying "the Prime Minister is a Christian too" in response to Williams' comments about just wars and Christianity. If Blair really thinks he can argue theology with Rowan Williams, then the man is an idiot - not only will he annoy everyone by messing about with the church, which is not part of his job, but he will also be roundly beaten as Rowan Williams is quite a respected theologian in his own right. That was just an aside though

01-08-2003, 12:27 PM	#6
Miss Piggy Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 65	Here in Finland most people are members of the Lutheran church, but for most of them, religion is just wedding etc. ceremonies. Gallups say that 70 % of Finns believe in some kind of a "higher power", but for most of them, religion is not that important. I think the situation here is quite similar to Sweden and Denmark. People are just indifferent, not clearly atheistic. However, the general opinion clearly rejects e.g. creationism; that seems to be typical here in Europe.

01-10-2003, 04:15 AM	#7
Taffsadar Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The land of the free, Sweden Posts: 27	I had my first biology class today (well at this level in school) and creation wasn't even mentioned (exept from the history part). Instead we discuss possibilities like bacterias coming from a comet as possible life causers etc.

01-10-2003, 05:30 AM	#9
Stephen T-B Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 5,878	II can�t lay my hands on the details, but various polls conducted in the UK show that most people believe in a god. But outside Moslem and Afro-Caribbean communities, it is apparently in a vague, non-committal sort of way, much as most people wouldn�t walk under a ladder because it�s �bad luck.� Church-going is generally in decline, and the Roman Catholics are having a problem, I�ve read, recruiting young men to the priesthood. Our tabloids (big circulation, sensationalising papers) love stories about vicars running off with parishioners� wives or having sex-change operations - any church-based scandal is like manna from heaven. I think the long-term accumulative effect has been to introduce a deep public cynicism, and this has been combined with a general decline in respect for all forms of authority, including the Church.

01-10-2003, 06:15 AM	#10
Miss Piggy Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 65	Sex-change operations, wow Here in Finland it's mainly about pastors who try to become too intimate with 15-year-old girls in the summer camp etc. etc. But then there also was a pastor, who acted as suteneur for his wife. So maybe this is not such a boring country, after all...

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