Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dr Rick · 07-20-2003, 06:16 PM

Reported in Pravda:

Quote:

This is a real relief map. Today-s military has almost similar maps. The map contains civil engineering works: a system of channels with a length of about 12,000 km, weirs, powerful dams. Not far from the channels, diamond-shaped grounds are shown, whose destination is unknown. The map also contains some inscriptions. Even numerous inscriptions. At first, the scientists thought that was Old Chinese language. Though, it turned out that the subscriptions were done in a hieroglyphic-syllabic language of unknown origin. The scientists never managed to read it...Geological structure of the slab was determined: it cosists of three levels. The base is 14 cm chick, made of the firmest dolomite. The second level is probably the most interesting, ?made� of diopside glas. The technology of its treatement is not known to modern science. Actually, the picture is marked on this level. While the third level is 2 mm thick and made of calcium porcelain protecting the map from external impact... On the map, a giant irrigative system could be seen: in addition to the rivers, there are two 500-metre-wide channel systems, 12 dams, 300-500 metres wide, approximately 10 km long and 3 km deep each. The dams most likely helped in turning water in either side, while to create them over 1 quadrillion cubic metres of earth was shifted. In comparison with that irrigative system, Volga-Don Channel looks like a scratch on the today-s relief. As a physicist, Alexander Chuvyrov supposes that now mankind can build only a small part of what is pictured on the map. According to the map, initially, Belaya River had an artificial river-bad.

and from Mysterious Earth:

Quote:

Dating a carved slab of stone is a nearly impossible task, and in the case of the Dashka Stone, it has lead to some very strained conclusions. Of the few datable materials on the map, there are a few fossilized shells: a 500 million year old specimen of Navicopsina munitus of Gyrodeidae family and a 120 million year old specimen of Ecculiomphalus princeps of Ecculiomphalinae subfamily. The shells are apparently used as markers upon the map itself. Some followers of the Dahska investigation have used this evidence to assert that the map must be 120 million years old!

We're very happy to go out on a limb and proclaim this is a terribly silly conclusion. C'mon people: this map, while an intriguing find, was not made during the mid Cretaceous -- not unless time travelers or aliens did the work! That the map-makers used fossilized shells as markers on the map tells us nothing of the age of the map, with the possible exception of proving that the map was made sometime in the past 120 million years after the most recent fossilation had taken place. Are we supposed to believe that a person living 120 million years ago embedded a live specimen along with a 380 million year old shellfish fossil? Think, people! As Chuvyrov himself drolly explains: "The map's creator probably used a petrified find."

Let us reiterate: the map is NOT 120 million years old. If we turn out to be wrong about this, all bets about everything will be off, so we're not too worried about embarrassing ourselves on this point. Moreover, the very argument relegates an otherwise important archaeological find to the nether realm of fringe science fiction.

The whole 120 million year old debacle notwithstanding, what does interest us is the contention that there are a great deal many more of these slabs. Soil surveying in the area suggests that the slab may have originally been located in the gorge of Sokolinaya Mountain near Chandar. Investigators speculate that glaciation during the last ice age dislocated the Chandar map slab, dislodging it from a position in a much larger map. Further investigation in the Ufa archives has suggested possible excavation sites for other slab resting places... we hope to be hearing more about this![/b]

Arken · 07-20-2003, 06:24 PM

Okay, maybe I'm just blind here, but I don't see anything other than a rock with a few cracks in it.

Dr Rick · 07-20-2003, 07:56 PM

...yeah, me too, but somehow, some people, my gorgeous but somewhat anti-establishment wife in particular, think this thing somehow turns the fields of archeology and palentology on their respective heads. There have been several articles published on "the map" in the lay press, though I have yet to see anything in a reputable peer-reviewed journal.

So I'm looking for some rational comments from some people that know about this kind of stuff. Is this find important or just junk? Does it pre-date the known civilizations, and is it really the product of "advanced (nano-) technology" as claimed by Professor Chuvyrov? Are the materials found in it really "beyond modern science"?

keyser_soze · 07-21-2003, 12:06 AM

Having read pravda daily for the last couple of years, this kind of thing is not uncommon. Their standards are um...ahh...somewhat more relaxed than peer journals. A nice closeup, to 10x or something would certainly be better for us to guage manmade, vs. "accidental" design. I don't remember seeing this, but I tend to glance over a lot of the sillier topics. I do thank them for giving me a heads up on the iraqui invasion, I had seen the troop movements(via pravda) before people in the states were even aware that we were going there. I'm going to err on the side of caution however and assume that this is right up there with the common "evidence" of alien visitation: namely, making natural artifacts and their placement match a preconcieved theory, with the assistance of the natural human tendency to find patterns in everything.

scumble · 07-21-2003, 05:36 AM

I'd agree it looks a bit dodgy. Unless I could compare it with current maps, I'd have no way of knowing if any of this was correct.

ps418 · 07-21-2003, 09:26 AM

Well, firstly there is not a single feature of the stone in the image that indicates that it is in fact a map of anything. They may be there on a small scale, but I can't see it. Second, assuming that there are map-like markings on a 500My old slab, simple commen sense tells you that the age of the rock does not equal the age of the markings! In cemetaries, for instance, it is common to find the tombstones carved into ancient limestones. In my city, most tombstones are made out of Ordovician limestones, hundreds of millions of years old, which are well-exposed locally for quarrying.

Patrick

ps418 · 07-21-2003, 09:29 AM

Quote:

At first, the scientists thought that was Old Chinese language. Though, it turned out that the subscriptions were done in a hieroglyphic-syllabic language of unknown origin. The scientists never managed to read it

So, the markings are considered language based on . . . what exactly?

Patrick

ps418 · 07-21-2003, 09:42 AM

Nothing about the material composition seems out of the ordinary. Dolomite (CaMg(CO3)2) is just limestone rich in magnesium, very, very common. Diopside (CaMgSi2 O6, Calcium Magnesium Silicate) is not unique either. It is found in many moderately to highly metamosphosed dolomitic limestones, for instance via contact metamorphism.

Patrick

Jayjay · 07-21-2003, 11:19 AM

Okay, so 120 million years ago Earth was inhabited by a highly advanced civilization that had access to nanotechnology that's beyond anything we can conceive... and they carved their maps on stone slabs???

Flintstones, meet the Flintstones,
They're the modern stone age family...

vixstile · 07-21-2003, 11:40 AM

It's a fucking rock!!! Nothing more.

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07-20-2003, 06:24 PM	#2
Arken Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 6,303	Okay, maybe I'm just blind here, but I don't see anything other than a rock with a few cracks in it.

07-20-2003, 07:56 PM	#3
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	...yeah, me too, but somehow, some people, my gorgeous but somewhat anti-establishment wife in particular, think this thing somehow turns the fields of archeology and palentology on their respective heads. There have been several articles published on "the map" in the lay press, though I have yet to see anything in a reputable peer-reviewed journal. So I'm looking for some rational comments from some people that know about this kind of stuff. Is this find important or just junk? Does it pre-date the known civilizations, and is it really the product of "advanced (nano-) technology" as claimed by Professor Chuvyrov? Are the materials found in it really "beyond modern science"?

07-21-2003, 12:06 AM	#4
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	Having read pravda daily for the last couple of years, this kind of thing is not uncommon. Their standards are um...ahh...somewhat more relaxed than peer journals. A nice closeup, to 10x or something would certainly be better for us to guage manmade, vs. "accidental" design. I don't remember seeing this, but I tend to glance over a lot of the sillier topics. I do thank them for giving me a heads up on the iraqui invasion, I had seen the troop movements(via pravda) before people in the states were even aware that we were going there. I'm going to err on the side of caution however and assume that this is right up there with the common "evidence" of alien visitation: namely, making natural artifacts and their placement match a preconcieved theory, with the assistance of the natural human tendency to find patterns in everything.

07-21-2003, 05:36 AM	#5
scumble Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 279	I'd agree it looks a bit dodgy. Unless I could compare it with current maps, I'd have no way of knowing if any of this was correct.

07-21-2003, 09:26 AM	#6
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	Well, firstly there is not a single feature of the stone in the image that indicates that it is in fact a map of anything. They may be there on a small scale, but I can't see it. Second, assuming that there are map-like markings on a 500My old slab, simple commen sense tells you that the age of the rock does not equal the age of the markings! In cemetaries, for instance, it is common to find the tombstones carved into ancient limestones. In my city, most tombstones are made out of Ordovician limestones, hundreds of millions of years old, which are well-exposed locally for quarrying. Patrick

07-21-2003, 09:42 AM	#8
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	Nothing about the material composition seems out of the ordinary. Dolomite (CaMg(CO3)2) is just limestone rich in magnesium, very, very common. Diopside (CaMgSi2 O6, Calcium Magnesium Silicate) is not unique either. It is found in many moderately to highly metamosphosed dolomitic limestones, for instance via contact metamorphism. Patrick

07-21-2003, 11:19 AM	#9
Jayjay Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 6,261	Okay, so 120 million years ago Earth was inhabited by a highly advanced civilization that had access to nanotechnology that's beyond anything we can conceive... and they carved their maps on stone slabs??? Flintstones, meet the Flintstones, They're the modern stone age family...

07-21-2003, 11:40 AM	#10
vixstile Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California Posts: 2,029	It's a fucking rock!!! Nothing more.

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