VivaHedone

Human consciousness seems to consist of sensations and thoughts. Animals clearly also have sensations. They also show themselves to have some ability for logical thought.

However, I believe that animals cannot 'hear' or understand their thoughts in the way that we do - simply because they have no proper language with which to do so. The thinking process is entirely separate from their consciousness, much like a reflex reaction in humans.

So in my opinion, animals can have no conscious understanding of the world around them. They are just a machine - but a machine with sensations.

First, I would like to know what you think of my ideas. Secondly, how much is a life consisting of sensations, but no understanding, really worth? For instance, is inflicting pain on an animal, who has no understanding of the concept of pain, as bad as inflicting pain on a human?

August Spies

there are machines that can feel sensations you know.

Luiseach

Which ones?

Amos

If we could understand animals they would say the same thing about humans. Animals are also much more aware of the world around them but may not have the ability to rationalize their thoughts like we do. Their scope of knowledge seems to be directed towards their own survival first. Some of them display a herd mentality and in this sense are they social animals much like humans who are social animals first.

Do you know any humans who really understand themselves? That "self-worth" idea of humans exists only for the protection of our human-ity which is only a 'condition of being' that belongs to the animal man and has no intrinsic value. For one, pain is an illusion and has nothing to do with our self worth. If anything, it speaks against our understanding because there is no pain in heaven wherein only life is real or pain could not be the illusion it is.

excreationist

I think the experiences of animals are similar to those of babies - though babies usually develop a sense of self-consciousness to analyse what's going on.

Warwick

Humans are complex electro-chemical machines.

Many people in this forum would agree that humans are animals from what I have read so far.

MyKell

And you base those claims on...?

BigBadShrubbery

My answer to the question " How much is the life of an animal worth?" is: As much as the life of any other animal, including humans. And that means, in a cosmic scale, nothing.

Amen-Moses

I'm sure they probably believe the same about you!

Amen-Moses

VivaHedone

The fact that animals have no language. We require thoughts in the form of words to understand the world around us. Unless animals have some kind of secret and as yet undetected language, or a totally different system of thoughts has somehow evolved parallel to ours, animals can have no conscious understanding of life.