Sabine Grant

Hi Gemma... you are correct in that comment. I recall the increase of mentaly ill homeless folks in Ca when Ronald Raegan ordered their release from psychiatric institutions.

Anyone stating that homeless people are homeless because of their decisions has a definite prejudicial approach of the problem of homelessness. It is no different than the kinds of thoughts expressed about Aids victims in the homosexual population. Too close to " they got what they deserve" type of thinking for me to ignore it.

Ronin

The majority of transients and local homeless I encounter are drug addicts...the smaller percentage are genuinely mentally ill, yet able to meander through the streets.

I have been in the position, at times, to commit those that have spent so much time without any care that they became an intense danger to themselves and others.

I have yet to find someone of sound mind and body who has just made the choice to remain in such a sufferable condition...I would assert that to indicate otherwise is an unreasonable position.

Now ~ I'm sure some could argue that the addict was responsible for his/her condition and is simply not directing enough self-will to overcome the condition they put themselves in and so they consciously take the easy road of homelessness.

However, I would still not classify this as a 'voluntary' condition and would strive to provide them the resources that are available through private and public agencies to give them some small hope of regaining their esteem and humanity.

We are all we have...there is no need for such neglect.

Sabine Grant

Amos

From my perspective we are not in charge of our own destiny and only can pretend that we have a free will (as we must).

If the above is true it is difficult to blame the homeless for their predicaments but the last thing we should do is 'step' on them. To sell them drugs is OK but not to the point that it does them permanent harm and this is where hard drugs are wrong. However, there is primary cause for the need of drugs and this is where society failed and I blame this on freedom of religion (narrowed down to the protestant church).

As I understand it the "true homeless" (hermit, poustiniac and clossard) want to be homeless for 'religious' reason. Have you ever come across them Ronin?

beyelzu

alright, calling homeless people lazy was probably an exaggeration. however, each person is responsible for his or her own actions. if those actions put them in a position to be on the street then that is there problem. if you want to help them, more power to you. but the government shouldnt. the government has no money of its own. it only has money that it coerces from tax payers. and thus, the government should only pay for things that are truly necessary. also, i would like to point out that again homeless people are simply dealing with the consequences of their actions. drug addicts too. and people who have unprotected sex or share drug needles. if you make poor decisions its just not my responsibility to help you. free will has consequences. and in an objectivist view of the world, they dont deserve my tax dollars. furthermore, i argue that it is impossible to be a "victim" of aids," unless you are born with it or get aids from a blood transfusion.

sabine, are you arguing that i am prejudiced against homeless people?

beyelzu

saying that someone is a victim of aids is like saying someone is a victim of russian roulette

Sabine Grant

I am saying that your thinking has a touch of prejudice as you generalize the homeless condition and again in this thread states that " homeless people are simply dealing with the consequences of their actions". I am surprised you maintain your position after the expose Ronin took the time to give us. You do realize that he is very involved with homeless people and that his opinion is not just an opinion but based on personal experience. Is it possible that you could be wrong in your assessment on homeless people?

I have no problem with tax dollars going into social actions . Any of us can end up homeless if circumstances change.

Frankly I find your opinions to be uncompassionate and not productive to the betterment of humanity.

I work in Home Health Care. I regard any of my patients as a victim of their illness. I would make no difference between an homosexual Aids patient or an heterosexual Aids patient. They are both needy people who are dying. A suffering human being is not to be neglicted no matter what the circumstances are.

If I follow your reasoning regarding who is a victim who is not, then anyone who happens to be ill due to their lifestyle or habits is to be neglicted. That would include anyone who has high cholesterol because of their diet, anyone who has COPD and emphysema because of smoking, anyone who exposed their skin to too much sun and has skin cancer and so and so on. Hopefuly you can examine your own habits and find that none of your habits could result in a decline of your health or social condition so you may never have to depend on folks like Ronin or myself to find some degree of help.

We have a duty to provide the means to restore a human being to health or a normal social level.

The few homeless people I have met did not choose to be in that miserable condition. That was not a conscious decision on their part. The woman living in her car who is now sheltered by a friend of mine did not make that decision. 4 children of hers are dispersed among family members while she saves money to be able to afford housing. She had a home supported by her husband. With proper legal counseling she will be able to obtain alimony and child support to help her back on her feet. Another young woman I know left her home to go to a battered women shelter with her 3 children. She has nothing. no car. no home. No job. Thanks to the devotion of the folks who work for the county social services, she is now enrolled in computer training and awaiting for housing assistance. And it is those tax dollars who enable her to get a new start.

The mentaly ill homeless individual DESERVES treatment and rehab time if involved in addictive habits. Some of them have a potential to get better and be productive in society. We can be part of that endeavor thanks to our tax system.

Sabine Grant

Hello Amos...I am not sure I understand who is selling homeless folks drugs?

I met one clochard (clossard) in France who was homeless by his personal political conviction. He was basicaly an anarchist who did not want to take part in any structures of society. He was honestly happy and was such a brilliant and interesting guy that many people offered him meals in their homes and a roof at times.
That is how he felt he could be totaly a free man. He became a popular character in my hometown and I would not be surprised if some tourists asked him to pause with them for the souvenir picture!

But that is the exception IMO.

livius drusus

Yeah, man! Those thrill-seeking babies in Africa were asking for it.

Just where do you get off judging people you know exactly nothing about? This is a big world and a lot of shit goes down in it. You talk of free will as if random chance and circumstance didn't exist. You don't have all the advantages you have because you deserved them, you know. You're lucky. Just like me and Ronin and Sabine and pretty much everyone on this board. Compared to the vast majority of people who have lived and died in this world, we are all incredibly, hugely lucky.

Sabine Grant

Too close to the thinking mode of " they got what they deserve" as I stated earlier.