Soul Invictus

I used to go to church and believe most of the stories I was told, however even as a child, I asked many critical questions that got the usual "God works in mysterious ways" and "We weren't meant to know all the answers" type of responses. It wasn't until my adulthood that I had the ability to check and research things for myself to see that things didn't quite add up to what I was being told. My girlfriend and I are having some particularly disturbing trials now, that may not be reconcilable, we both recognize this, so that why I'm posting here. Hopefully those already married can give a lot of feedback. I started going with her about 2 years ago, when I was more in the church, which was cool because she wanted a Christian man. Although I had my concerns at that time, it wasn't an issue really..Even I felt that my searching was probably just a rebellious "kick" at the time. But it wasn't a kick. I've gradually become more liberal in my thinking. Not quite to the point of atheism, but I use the same line of questioning for understanding of inconsistencies and contradictions, because I generally cannot accept certain things. She wants to raise children in a Christian household, which I would want her to define to me. IMO, fundamentally there are Christian precepts that I'm fine with, like the spirit of charity, giving, etc. I have issues with certain particulars, such as the exodus and great flood theories. Even within the Christian community, there's a strong sentiment on these being cultured myths and fables. I guess I'm trying to marginalize or compromise my views for the sake of not losing her. I really don't want to, however I just have to be assured that I'm not forced to reinforce something, that I don't genuinely believe, that's why I'm going to ask her to define "Christian household". Is/has anyone out there gone through what I'm going through? We're talking about this next week, and I'm desperately seeking any and all resources to see if I can salvage this situation? She asked me if I believed in God, and right now, I can't say that I fully don't believe in A god even if one said nature, so I said yes. She asked me if I believed Jesus was the son of God, and I told her that that was an issue that I'm working with (trying my best not to say no) She's majoring in anthropology andeven taking minor studies in Africology, which both have considerable and strong qualms with the Christian theology. I alluded to that, and she didn't really say a lot. What's the best way to go about this? We've talked about marriage, kids, where we'd move, but never really this..I'd tried to talk about it in the past, however it never developed into anything (because I have a tendency to ramble, so she limits discussing long issues with me! )


I hope I get considerable feedback. I need them.

HelenM

There are some threads about relationships with Christians on SL&S - this post might be best off in SL&S too...

You may be interested to read:

Christian Girlfriend Problems

My girlfriend has become fundified

Broke Up With Xian Girlfriend

Issues Regarding Marrying a Catholic

There may be more too. Those are just some of the recent ones.

Helen

Rhea

Also read
Update to all Christian who used to be
and
Strumming for Jesus (when you have a LOOONG time!)

for stories about marriages going through this after the fact...

brighid

Soul Invictus,

Helen posted some very informative links, and although some are lengthy I would suggest taking the time to read through them carefully. I also believe the Strummin’ for Jesus thread is also an excellent one to read.

I will do my best to provide you with my personal experience and hopefully those experiences can assist you in some way to find a resolution that best fits your needs and desires.

I would like to start off by saying that I think it takes a lot of courage to begin questioning your faith and to be honest about your desires and needs for any future continuance of this, or any relationship. It also shows that you care for this woman, and respect your relationship with her very much because you are putting so much time, energy and reflective thought into these very important questions. I hope the research you do and the answers you find lead you to a positive end that best fulfills your needs as a human being.

I have told the story before about a relationship I had ending because my boyfriend became “born again” and began placing restrictive requirements on my future abilities within a “Christian” relationship (the submissive, obedient, must stay at home and take care of the children Biblical role of wife and mother, etc.) It was a very difficult choice to make, but there was no way on this Earth I could possibly compromise and be what he now wanted me to be in order that we have a future together. I cannot be dutifully submissive because my husband is supposed to be the “authority” over me. However, I don’t think I was as deeply emotionally invested as you seem to be with your GF. The choice was much easier to make because it required I be someone I knew I could never be, no matter how much I cared for, or loved him.

I am presently married to a man who is extremely liberal and much more of a Deist. We agree on what we want for our son as far as a religious education goes, and always have even if both our religious ideas have changed throughout our relationship. Those changes have primarily been in the same direction so the friction has not been created.

As to your situation: I would advise answering those questions for yourself – resolutely answering your questions about God, Christ and faith, but that will take more time. If you cannot honestly tell your GF the truth about your feelings then this might be a sign of communication problems that will like cause you as much difficulty as your religious differences could. It is essential that you have the confidence and respect needed to share the tough stuff in this, or any relationship. If your relationship cannot withstand this test (that can be overcome) then it is unlikely it will hold together under similarly difficult situations that WILL arise during the course of a marriage.

I also think that you must have her define what she truly thinks she needs from a husband, what parenting will involve, etc. You are asking the right questions! IMHO the best course of action is to be honest with her about your feelings, positive and negative. If she cannot handle, or accept those feelings and misgivings it will be the answer you need, but not the one you want. Do not water yourself down, or be untrue to yourself in order to hold onto a relationship. In the end it will lead to the same result, but most likely a more painful and avoidable end. Allow her to make the decisions that are best for her by honestly educating her about your thoughts. Do not deceive her into believing you are something you are not, or at least you really aren’t sure you are right now.

It is possible for people of religious differences to have a successful marriage and parenting experiences. Helen M has a lot of experience in that area and could be a good resource for you. However, I would say that she and her husband are the exception rather then the rule. Vicar Phillip, brett c, blondegoddess and so many others have told their stories in the threads mentioned and maybe those stories will help you as well.

I spent many years single because I was unwilling to compromise my needs in a relationship. It wasn’t always pleasant, and at times it was rather lonely. Through it all I maintained my self-respect and eventually I attracted and managed to marry a man who loved me because of all that. I have tried to compromise my identity and be what a partner wanted me to be because I was afraid he wouldn’t like me if I was fully ME. Well … that was never successful and I ended up with more heartache because of it.

Love is not enough to sustain a marriage. It requires a lot of hard work, some compromise (but not of who you are) and it certainly helps to agree on the fundamental questions that will be a part of life as a married couple: how should you raise your children, what are your expectations of a husband/wife, what are your sexual needs, etc., etc. Many more questions, and even the same will come up over the course of the marriage and your needs, and that of your spouse will evolve. But if you cannot communicate those needs then you are doomed from the outset, unless those communication problems can be repaired. It’s best to have them in decent working order before saying, “I do.”

Brighid

Godless Dave

I was dating a liberal, non-church-going woman for a while. We discussed raising kids a couple times and it would not have worked. In fact that has a lot to do with why we broke up. She wants to take her kids to Sunday school and church because she thinks it's a good way to learn a moral code. Even when I pointed out it isn't necessary to go to church to learn morals she didn't relent. I asked her what she would do if one of her kids thought about it and said he or she didn't believe in God. She said "I'd be sad." Big red flag. I said if my kids were taken to church they had to be allowed to stop going if they had a good reason (besides wanting to sleep in). I thought that was a reasonable compromise but she had a problem with it.

Another time I asked her if she thought Jesus really was the son of God and had performed miracles and come back from the dead. She said she didn't know about his divinity, but believed in the miracles because "stuff like that happens all the time".

BioBeing

Let me start with my standard disclaimer: do not take relationship advice from people on the internet who do not know you or your situation. That said...

I am an atheist and married to a "weak" Christian. Our five year anniversay is tomorrow. We both knew each others position before we got married. She wanted to take the kids to Church and they go to a Christian mothers day out (at the same church). When they go to Church, Daddy stays home to do his chores. For the most part, I am comfortable with that (except that I actually have to do the chores), and have not directly questioned God in front of the kids. However, I will, as soon as they ask me (the oldest is 3 now). And my wife knows this. I have no problems celebrating Christmas, giving candy at Easter etc. As far as I am concerned, this is purely "tradition". I try to look at is as exposing them to as many cultures as I can. How will things turn out in a few years, when I tell my kids that neither Santa nor God exist? We'll see. (Personally, I think they'll be more upset about the former!) But, and my point here, is my wife knows all this. If my kids ask to not go to Church, then I will make sure they get to stay home (and help with cutting the grass). If they want to go to church, I will take them myself (but not go in. Yuch!).

So talk. Be honest. [And if your g/f imposes too many time limits, take this as a sign that she is not into open communication. That was to me, the most worrying part of your post. In a relationship, you have to be willing to talk about anything, for however long it takes.]

Bree

Off to SL&S...

scarmig

My advice is this.

Sit down next week and honestly tell her your feelings. Then ask that she honestly tell you hers.

Sit and have as much discussion as is necessary. Decide early on what each of your breaking points are. You may decide that your line in the sand is that you don't ever want to be forced to go to church. She may decide that her line in the sand is that your children will *always* go to church.

You are already on the right path in that you have decided to sit down and talk about it. It is the right thing to do.

Oh yeah, and don't forget the most important thing. Be honest with yourself. If you think you may not be able to stomach children raised as fundamentalists, admit it to yourself now, and share it with her. Be honest with yourself.

Bumble Bee Tuna

You haven't told us what kind of a Christian she is, so advice is really hard to give. But here goes anyway...

1. Find out exactly what she believes.
2. Find out what she wants out of your relationship.
3. Figure out what you believe, and the sooner the better.
4. Figure out what you want out of your relationship.
5. Have an honest discussion about all of these things with her.

Don't marginalize your views to stay with her, because an honest relationship just can't work like that. You have to be honest.

-B

callmejay

"It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you aren't." I don't know if that's true or not, but it rings true to me.