The_Unknown_Banana

I had a couple of in depth conversations about the existance of God with a friend, and in particular, we talked about faith healers etc. I think the conversation went fairly well.

Anyway, she went to church last night and lo and behold, they had a women with some pinched nerve, and was in pain. So the woman took the stage, they prayed, and she apparently left happy. Now my friend has taken that as a sign from God, as it was right after we were talking about it. *sigh*

How can you argue against that?

She also says the preacher came upto her in the crowd and "prophesized" some stuff to her, and she believed him as he couldn't know some of the stuff he did.

How do I explain that, not just to her, but to myself? I trust her, so is she deluding herself into thinking he said anything he couldn't have known? Is it possible that religiousness can really affect someone that much? Or do I have to be suspicious of what she says to me? I guess it is conceivable that she could say something just to get me to believe, but I would not expect this from her. The possiblity of it being true, whether it be God or not, I find I can't just accept.

I don't know why I'm posting this, just have to get it off my chest. Any of you had similar situations? People you trust telling you things you just cannot accept? I thought I was open to the idea that there is more to reality than meets the eye... but still... it's easier to just write off the claims of someone you don't know.

Amaranth

Watch a televangelist get ahold of a child under 10 or so, and lay hands on them; So very funny to watch the ones who are to young to know they are supposed to fall down. As for a preacher and his "prophecies", go to your local occult bookstore and get your Tarot cards read. Don't approach them as withdrawn and trying to be crafty, either - The idea of the experience is to get a feel for just how much someone can read from you just by being attentive and knowing about people. Last but not least - Remember the penchant for self-deception that comes with strong beliefs. Keep an open mind, and see things for yourself.

Amaranth

The_Unknown_Banana

Thanks - That actually helps!

Problem with the healer is that it wasn't one of those where they were supposed to fall down. I think everyone just prayed for her and she supposedly felt the pain go away.

While it would be nice to explain this one away easily (ie. Matter of the mind, or it was fake), I probably have no chance of doing so with my friend, as I couldn't possibly know (is what she'd say). Plus the fact that it happened right after we talked about it Still, I like how God lets the woman suffer until other people ask for her to be healed..

I agree with you otherwise. Problem with the tarot card reader is that it is explainable in a few ways I'd imagine. If it's clearly rubbish, well, then no-one can match her God! If it hits home, well then it's obviously satan at work. Might give it a go anyway (Never tried it before!)

It's just hard seeing a close friend delude herself so much. She used to be realistic (christian, but realistic - would believe science/reality over fundie interpretations of religion). I guess now she's formed her interpretation, and she's sticking to it.

Majody

I would say it could all be of the mind. I watched a program on Discovery about some Monks. Might have been Tibetin, don't remember. Anyway, they were able to manipulate their body temperature to the point that they could sleep all night in weather that was below 0 degrees wearing nothing more than what can be described as a bed sheet. As far as I know, they didn't pray to any Christian God.

trillian

People are healed because they have been put into a suggestible state of consciousness. These techniques were first popularized in the 18th century by Anton Mesmer (hence the term mesmerize). He made people fall down too! And he didn't say it was any god. IIRC he said it was "animal magnetism" which healed them.

Music, speech patterns (ever notice how preachers like that talk the same way?), a large crowd, and lighting all contribute. They are basically under a mild hypnosis.

The healings are semi-real too because the power of suggestion CAN make your pain diminish- but the underlying problem will remain and the pain will come back after the suggestion wears off in a few days.

There are books debunking the faith healing myths but the Anton Mesmer pictures (if you find them) are great because he looks just like a preacher-healer as he makes his friends fall down....yet he was doing it for entertainment at parties!

In the end, your friend can still hold the belief that the woman's pain went away, but you should be able to convince her that it had nothing to do with God.

trillian