Draygomb

Blu

All the roads of spain would be a subsystem of all the roads to Rome. See, in order for anything to be part of a subsystem of absolute truth it must its self be absolutely true.

Those of us in America may think we have the truth because all of our roads lead to Jersey but in fact we only have a system of relative truths.

But that's were my metaphor breaks down because in truth it's more like systems are made up of both Absolute truth like 1+1=2 and relative truth like OJ is innocent. So it's more like only those sections of road that run North South are absolute truth and all other sections are relative truth.

Jayhawker Soule

What is the difference between relative truth and opinion?

Do you consider Genesis, von Daniken, and Darwin equally valid explanations?

Blu

In response:

Well you are correct in some ways. In order for relative truth to be a part of Absolute Truth mega-system relative truth would have to be partially true. Well if you have ever taken humanities in college you would also know that there is a linking philosophy which ties all religion. They use different combinations of words. They all focus on the "literal" aspect of the text which essentially "hides" the true meaning of what religion is trying to "say".

Did you know that in the Bible in the book of Genesis evolution is "discussed"? So why are people who believe in the "creation" theory against evolution and why are evolutionist against the Christian creation theory?


I think there is an underlining "Truth" which ties all religion and science. People refuse to see it though. It is what ties relative truth to absolute truth. But I have only caught glimpses of it. Everyone really only catches glimpses.

Maybe with the continued exploration of Quantum Mechanics people will really find a Unifying theory.

Anything is possible.

Blu

Yes I do.

When you come right down to it everything is belief. People who actually do not do scientific research choose to believe what the scientist have come up with but I have not seen the "proof" with my own eyes and did not actually make the discoveries. But I believe it because well, it is science. Then people hear about religious ideas or spiritual ideas and they are more sceptical about these. Why is that?

I think that there is a Unifying Theory. I see a trend in society which virtually stunts unification because people are too busy focusing their attention on discounting everything that they forget that there may be an underlining, hidden connection to everything.

Like I mentioned before, the Bible (Genesis) mentions evolution but not using the word "Evolution." Philosophers or (in my case) Humanities instructors actually look and find these things. People who are already against Christianity will never look at the Bible objectively. Christians will never look at evolution objectively. Why is that?

Could it be ingnorance and the presense of preconcieved notions? Could it be everything is pre-judged? Could it be that people are closing their minds like a steel trap?

Jayhawker Soule

I applaud your honesty. Everything else I find pathetic and inane.

Blu

ReasonableDoubt,

That is your relative truth

I don't see it that way so that would be my relative truth. Double

Blu

Just one more thing:

I would have liked to learn about ReasonableDoubt's beliefs and theories rather than his judgment and ridicule.

I think beliefs and theories are more interesting to "hear" about. I find judgment and ridicule to be petty. Whoops! That was a judgment.

Let's get back on topic.

Datheron

Blu,

Assuming that there is a meaning there to begin with. I just see this as reading too much into nothing.

Because they are, for the most part, mutually exclusive! Theists try to take various steps to reconcilate the scientific success of evolution, but all that is reduced to is having God control evolution; the anti-thesis would be saying that God himself was a product of evolution. In either case, I don't see your point.

That's great and poetic and all, as well as vague and somewhat philosophical, but really, what evidence do you have that suggests any of this? Like I mention above, religion and science usually do not mix; ideally, they should be exclusive spheres that focus on different aspects. Of course, that doesn't happen - religion makes declarations that science later unveils, and science makes discoveries that suck away the powers of God.

So what is there that "unifies" this? There are compromises; there are always compromises for those that don't mind losing a little ground. But I do not see any way to tie these two together without making some awful extrapolation and speculation with no backup whatsoever, and frankly, while it does sound impressive, I would much rather throw this flimsy idea away.

Jayhawker Soule

Very well. What is the difference between relative truth and opinion? Also, where does the bible mention evolution and what does it say about it?

[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: ReasonableDoubt ]</p>

Blu

Datheron,

I think what you wrote about "throwing this idea away," is sad. I would much rather see nothing thrown away. Ideas should be explored and theories should be explored.

At one end of the spectrum there are people against something and then on the other end of the spectrum are people who outright believe and there is nothing you can do to say or do that will change there mind. Both ends of the spectrum are representative to a closed state of mind. Once you find yourself stuck there, discoveries are few and far in between. For that reason, I think it is sad.

THere is a middle ground. NEither believing or disbelieving, someone who still asks questions and is not afraid or unwilling to "hear" other people theories or ideas.

I think a lot of good researchers would have to take a middle ground.

"Putting a scientific attitude into practice requires not only skepticism but also humility because we may have to reject our own ideas. What matters is not my opinion or yours, but the truths nature reveals in response to our questioning."

Humility, skepticism, and questioning are the words that need to be focused one.

I ask a lot of questions, my mind is still open, and I do not accept it when someone says that can't be true etc etc.

If you read the book of Genesis, I will then be able to discuss evolution from the point of view of the Bible.