Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Coragyps · 05-21-2003, 12:47 PM

The Ames crater in Oklahoma is a good 'un for this argument: the shattered sediments around/below it produce oil (from all those drowned dinosaurs, you know

) and then there's 8000 feet of sediment on top of the crater itself. There's also a very recent paper in either Nature or Science about Swedish fossil meteorites - reference when I get to the house this evening.

Meatros · 05-21-2003, 12:58 PM

Coragyps-Cool thanks for the heads up.

Incidentally I'm still a little confused by this logic:

Quote:

Both would be under GOD's control and the verse would still be literal

Um...What?? How...whu?

If that's *not* an interpretation then what is?

On a side note; The board is actuall quite strange. I've found that when Helen gets into trouble she relies on her husband (the author this site), who apparently has his own theories about 'the flood' somehow having a 'snowball' effect.

MrDarwin · 05-21-2003, 01:45 PM

If the discussion is about taking the Genesis myths literally, then why not ask them why they believe the creature that tempted Eve was Satan, when the story not only never says it was, but on the contrary explicitly identifies the creature as a talking snake?

Smilin · 05-21-2003, 02:20 PM

Here's a good example for you Meatros:

Source:

http://www.sciencenews.org/20020615/bob9.asp

ANCIENT COMPLEXITY. Newfoundland's Mistastin Lake fills the eroded remnant of a 38-million-year-old crater, shown in this winter image from space. Horseshoe Island is what's left of the complex crater's central uplift.
NASA/Lunar and Planetary Institute

Autonemesis · 05-21-2003, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Meatros
On a side note; The board is actuall quite strange. I've found that when Helen gets into trouble she relies on her husband (the author this site), who apparently has his own theories about 'the flood' somehow having a 'snowball' effect.

That's quite amazing that she can maintain such cognitive dissonance, even when her husband contradicts her.

From the front page of the setterfield site:

Quote:

Scanning the heavens for the first time since the successful December 1999 servicing mission, NASA's Hubble Space Telescope has imaged a giant, cosmic magnifying glass, a massive cluster of galaxies called Abell 2218. This "hefty" cluster resides in the constellation Draco, some 2 billion light-years from Earth.

If they are two billion light years from Earth, then we could not see them yet. We have somewhere between 1,999,990,000 and 1,999,994,000 years to go before the light the galaxies emitted on creation day reaches Earth.

Oh yes, I forgot. God created the light already on its way to Earth, red-shifted just so, as a test of our faith.

Abel Stable · 05-21-2003, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Meatros
Um...What?? How...whu?

I don't see how any YEC could respond to the meteor record without some seriously bizarre gymnastics. How on earth did they come to that conclusion? Do they really feel comfortable with it? Think of the god they're describing, its like he's got ADD or something-
God:"Oooo this whole flood thing's getting dull! Oh rocks! I'll throw rocks now, yeah!"

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDarwin
why not ask them why they believe the creature that tempted Eve was Satan, when the story not only never says it was, but on the contrary explicitly identifies the creature as a talking snake?

Just a sidenote, but christians (if they're familiar w/ it) will quote this passage from Revelation:

12:19 The great dragon was hurled down�that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

But thats the only mention of the snake being satan as far as i know. Just barely squeezed it in the last chapter. But the two still don't seem to fit given their contexts. Satan's punishment was to crawl on his belly & eat dirt? How could he get any decieving done?

Coragyps · 05-22-2003, 06:54 AM

The paper I mentioned above is Schmitz, et al., Science, 300, 961-964 (2003). A quote:

Quote:

More than 40 fossil meteorites (1 to 20 cm in diameter) were recovered in mid-Ordovician marine limestone in the Thorsberg quarry at Kinnekulle, southern Sweden. The high abundance of meteorites deposited in ancient sea-floor sediments indicates that the meteorite paleoflux was enhanced by up to two orders of magnitude as compared to the recent flux.

Also, see Stewart and Allen, Nature 418, 520 - 523 (01 Aug 2002) for a Jurassic crater 20 km across beneath the English Channel.

Meatros · 05-22-2003, 07:35 AM

Thanks again all! You've been quite helpful.

I don't know how much you all care but I said this:

Quote:

If you do condemn the interpretive view of Genesis, how do you reconcile it with your interpretive view of the flood?

To which A_Christian responded:

Quote:

Meatos:

I believe what the scripture says. I changed nothing----I might imagine additional details but (call it artistic license); HOWEVER, I
don't suggest the what the Bible says is a FABLE (that it didn't happen). I also DO NOT change the progression in which things
happen to suit my theories---unlike evolutionists! If a day is like a thousand years to GOD, I wouldn't try to stretch it to 300 million each.

There is a giant difference in imagining why and how things were and allowing the Word of God to be the foundation. It is quite another to toss out what the Bible says and presume that your eyes see everything because scientists are so much wiser.

In any event, I was wondering how scientists figure out how much damage a certain size meteor will do to an area. On the sites I've been to they speculated about how much damage a __ big meteor would do, but I haven't seen much on *how* they come up with the number. (I see no reason to disbelieve the number, I'm just curious).

Smilin · 05-22-2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Meatros
Thanks again all! You've been quite helpful.

Meatros:

A very good source from NASA I found for your review which discusses the formations of impact craters:

http://cmex-www.arc.nasa.gov/CMEX/da...at2/crater.htm

Meatros · 05-22-2003, 01:02 PM

Here's another response:

I said: So how did mankind survive the life ending mega meteor Vredefort?

Quote:

probably barely. Of course, most meteors don't affect the ENTIRE earth in one hit, do they?

To which I replied:

Actually meteors the size of the Vredefort do effect the entire earth in one hit.

She then replied:

Quote:

Ah, you mean like perhaps setting off a series of volcanoes? (Babel)

Or possibly triggering the crustal plates of the earth to start sliding across a super-heated, low viscosity asthenosphere? (Peleg)

I see!

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05-21-2003, 12:47 PM	#11
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	The Ames crater in Oklahoma is a good 'un for this argument: the shattered sediments around/below it produce oil (from all those drowned dinosaurs, you know ) and then there's 8000 feet of sediment on top of the crater itself. There's also a very recent paper in either Nature or Science about Swedish fossil meteorites - reference when I get to the house this evening.

05-21-2003, 01:45 PM	#13
MrDarwin Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 4,140	If the discussion is about taking the Genesis myths literally, then why not ask them why they believe the creature that tempted Eve was Satan, when the story not only never says it was, but on the contrary explicitly identifies the creature as a talking snake?

05-21-2003, 02:20 PM	#14
Smilin Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: SouthEastern US Posts: 1,165	Here's a good example for you Meatros: Source: http://www.sciencenews.org/20020615/bob9.asp ANCIENT COMPLEXITY. Newfoundland's Mistastin Lake fills the eroded remnant of a 38-million-year-old crater, shown in this winter image from space. Horseshoe Island is what's left of the complex crater's central uplift. NASA/Lunar and Planetary Institute

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