Amos

Purgatory has nothing to do with punishment fitting a crime but is needed for the redemption of our prior nature. While in purgatory we must get to know the fulness of Christ if ever we are to kow the depth, breadth and width of the Lord OUR God, who is Christ within us.

The nice thing about purgatory is that it gives protestants a chance to run the race. The problem is that they can never finish the race and will die while awaiting the second coming of Christ in their life, which should have been the reason why they entered the race to start with. Since they can't finish the race the Catholic Church holds that the fulness of salvation exists only in the Catholic Church because they are the only ones who can leave purgatory before they die.

According to Rev.13 purgatory should last 42 months.

Darth Dane

"DD-- Perhaps I own a different tranlastion of the Gospels:" obviously, I´m from Denmark.

""This child (Jesus) is chosen for the destruction and salvation of many in Israel." Luke 2:3" -Did you consider the possibility that Luke or whoever indeed did write it, Wrote afterwards, and perchance embroidered on the story?
You put Jesus in ( ) why? doesn´t the scripture say Jesus or Just child? And Even though, that is indeed what happened wasn´t it? He caused both of these, as witnessed by someone....if historybooks is to be believed.

""And sorrow, like a sharp sword, will break your own heart." Luke 2:35" - I offer this explanation, At face value this is truth!, however if you bring in the phrase "your faith(belief) shall save you", It takes another meaning, now it means that if you don´t believe in sorrow but in that which is all love, you can save yourself. If you don´t allow sorrow to enter you, you shall not have a broken heart.

""Do you think I came to bring peace to the world? No, I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34"

And a cleft was made....



"There is love, and pain and suffering."

Yes indeed, do you want to look at it with love or disgust and hate? It´s all there, how will your eyes judge that which they see? With Love? With Hate?

" "The sharp edge of the razor is difficult to pass over: thus the wise say the path to Salvation is hard." Katha-Upanishad (note: non-Abrahamic)"

Yes, it is hard. So everyone says at least..... Hard in comparison to what?







DD - Love Spliff

Perchance

Ah, thank you for the clarification, Rimstalker. I just thought it was very strange that Gemma should claim heaven as unjust, but then try defending hell, which only seems to be different in one respect (just as eternal, certainly).

I suppose it says something when there are even contradictions in the strawmen...



-Perchance.

Rousseau_CHN

lest we forget all religions started out as a 'kind religion'
People who are oppressed turned to religion for 'kindness'.
The change only occured when religion became powerful.

-RRH-

I'm not so sure we can say that. I was not there at the start of every religion, so I can't say for sure, but I suspect some, if not all, major religions started as small manipulative cults, and mellowed out once they were established enough that they could survive without being so vicious.

But hey, I wasn't there, so I can't say for certain.

Amos

Nono, religion was never meant to be a social club and only vultures will prey on the oppressed.

The Naked Mage

Gemma Therese has a point, but if she styles her hair properly it's not as noticeable.

Rousseau_CHN

I don't believe in what you said, and the reason is because it would destroy my beliefs in republicanism and liberalism.

How can something small be manipulative?
And how can something so established mellow out?

I believe that small organization tend to be more humane or, in the words of this thread's creator, kinder. The Christians, then, really offered hope to the people oppressed. Or at least they offered less bullshits than the Aristocratic Roman who were after their hides.

Things change when the Christians established their religion as sole religion of the Western World.

And they only mellowed out at the time when their right to govern were undermined.

Christianity is now mellowed out, not because it is established, but because it is already dying, grasping for its last air. No longer does it enjoy absolute power like those seen in the middle ages.

As John Lennon said, "I don't need to prove myself. Christianity is going to pass away...we're more popular than Christ."

Therefore I maintain that religion started out as truly benign institution...that got sidetracked by power (in keeping with my republican beliefs).

Gemma Therese

Ha, ha.

Gemma Therese

atheist_in_foxhole

Gemma, if your "god" exists and is really planning to burn and torture people for eternity simply because they didn't select the proper religion, then he/she/it is worse than Hitler. Far worse. And by defending him/her/it, you and your fellow religionists are no different than the guards at Dachau.

I will NEVER submit to such a monster.