Goliath

Helen,

Are you saying that not a single xian on this planet would enjoy watching atheists burn in hell? Are you sure about that, Helen?

Furthermore, I think my post was somewhat helpful, since it would seem to probably be an approximation to x-xian's wife's reaction to hearing what she has more than likely suspected.

And I have. What is your point?

We are doing just that.

Sincerely,

Goliath

HelenM

It is not my experience that what you said comes remotely close to typical Christian behavior.

I won't say any more about it though.

take care
Helen

Sabine Grant

GOLIATH : I agree with Helen that X-Xian needs to find support in this thread so his marriage can work out thru that crisis rather than radical advices posted to express another characterization of christians.
Have you considered adding water to the well rather than adding fuel to the fire?

X-XIAN : do not be discouraged. There are far worse crises a couple can face than the one you are both facing. You are both healthy, have three beautiful kids, a roof over your heads and food on the table. You love her and she loves you. You both love your children. It is just going to take some time. It will not be resolved over a week.

Goliath

Helen,

What you consider to be "typical xian behavior" couldn't possibly be any less relevant to the discussion at hand.

So be it.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

Sabine Grant,

After reading x-xian's posts on the matter, I don't see how a resolution can be reached. Perhaps there is one, but I don't know what it is or how it could possibly come to fruition.

The idea of xians seeing atheists as evil and the idea that some xians may enjoy seeing atheists burning in hell is hardly "radical," IMO. In fact, it's nearly bloody typical.

Clearly I've hit a nerve with you and Helen. For what it's worth (and when I usually apologize to xians on this forum, my apologies seem to be worth absolutely nothing) I apologize for any offense that I caused.

Sincerely,

Goliath

HelenM

I do appreciate apologies, so thank you for caring whether I was offended or not. Although - I wasn't really. Just concerned that as far as possible, the advice/suggestions/information shared here is/are as accurate as possible.

take care
Helen

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: HelenM ]</p>

pescifish

I can name a couple of people on this board who have experienced EXACTLY the types of behavior that Goliath posted. I've personally heard those types of speeches and ravings on TV evangelist programs. IMO, this radical behavior not only exists but is sometimes exalted by some fundamentalist groups.

Although this forum is not for generalizing about theists, it is also a place where people who have have had to deal with some of those radical behaviors can vent with others who may have experienced the same thing. For many people, being able to vent these feelings is helpful in a healing sense. [edited to add:]
&lt;moderator mode&gt;
In case anyone takes that to mean it's open season on theists here in SL&S, obviously, it doesn't mean that at all -- it's not open season on anyone in here!
&lt;end moderator mode&gt;

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: pescifish ]</p>

Sabine Grant

((((((( GOLIATH)))))))))

Just so there is no misunderstanding, that represents a hug.

Vicar Philip

Everyone's comments are very much appreciated.

Unfortunately, I'm very close to thinking that Goliath has hit the nail on the head. I, too, do not know how a resolution can be reached. The church that I mentioned she now strangely wants to go to has become the center of attention in this never-ending battle.

Today, we IMed for about a half hour, most of which dealt with me not believing (of course). She claims that our (Christian) Family was supposed to be raised by BOTH of us holding Christian ideals, and since I "don't want to believe," I'm breaking my commitment to this family. She is also insisting that I attend the new church with her and the kids on Sunday. Either that, or we're finished, she says.

I don't feel like selling out. I asked her what I was supposed to do, sit there enduring lectures about fables I don't believe in, stoically getting spoon-fed their irrational pablum?? Ah, but it's not force-feeding, she says; one only has to believe, and it all becomes clear. BULLSHIT. She then says it's fine if I don't believe in everything in the bible, but I still have to attend this church. Or I lose everything. She just can't believe I would give all of this up for this "crazy, twisted view" I now have of god and the world. BULLSHIT.

We're now barely speaking, and she claims to not feel good after our arguing today. I don't feel good either, but I just can't go back to the mindless obedience expected by the Good Christian People. I'm so incredibly tired of all of this. I never thought I'd say it, but I'm thinking that leaving this shit may not be so bad. Yes, yes, I know.... what about my kids.

My 13 year old knows my views, and I have told my 10 year old to believe what he wants to believe. If my wife knew I had told them these things, I would be drawn and quartered on the spot. What's ironic is my 10-year old wants to be a scientist when he grows up, and he thinks just like me. I asked my wife how she's going to feel someday if our son does become a scientist and no longer believes in Christianity. He will believe, she says, because he knows it's only right to. Yeah, whatever. All this shit is leaving a REALLY BAD taste in my mouth.

Is Atheism grounds for Divorce???

The Other Michael

Oh man, that's not sounding very promising. And it sounds like in your wife's case, the answer to your question is going to be "yes".

At least your children are of an age old enough to be able to understand some of what is going on, though with puberty looming on the horizon they'll have plenty of their own internal turmoil to deal with in addition to the split. And while you need to think about them (and your wife too) you also have to preserve yourself. You can't do your kids much good if you are an emotional wreck.

Have they made any comments about the recent atmosphere at home that would indicate that they are aware and being bothered by all of this?

But it sounds like your spouse has given you a double-dog dare you ultimatum, backing both of you into your respective corners.

She's ignored the old adage of never corner a rat - always leave them a way out otherwise they'll turn on you. Is she really so blind that she can't see that she's basically leaving you no option but divorce?

This may be a completely stupid suggestion, but is there any chance that printing off this thread (and maybe Brett's too) and giving to her to read might turn on a light for her - or even a dim glimmer?

As long as she thinks it is just you maybe she figures you'll snap out of your aberrant behavior. But if she could see what you've been telling others, and how upset it has you, and how her actions appear to a group of adults (who, while being godless heathens bound for hell (well, except for Helen) are by and large pretty rational and sensible in their comments) maybe it might bring a little perspective to her viewpoint.

Sometimes reading things can have a little less emotional impact than a tension-filled exchange of heated words.

I'm afraid that if you've accurately represented things you need to prepare for the worst.

Get yourself an attorney and get some advice NOW. A couple of hundred dollars for a consultation may save you a lot later.

From other divorce threads I've seen it also looks like you may want to open up a separate bank account of your own NOW and move a reasonable share of the joint funds into it. I've seen people mention how they'd basically come home one day to find the apartment empty (and find that the rent hadn't been paid for months), the bank accounts cleaned out, and all "joint" property gone away with soon to be ex-spouse.

I don't know your shared financial situation, but your wife may feel threatened enough to something rash and grab what she can if she thinks she and the kids (since she'll presume she'll get custody) will be left destitute while you run off to associate with libertine men and scaaaarlet women (after all, why would you want to deny god unless you wanted to lead the hedonistic life of excess that all we atheists are known to lead?)

But some advance legal advice sounds to me like it should be a high priority item on your to do list.

Maybe you can hope for a trial separation to let things cool down and to really bring home to her just what she's setting herself up for. She may find that having an x-xian sized hole in her life may not be quite what she was wanting.

best wishes,
Michael