lpetrich

I'm very annoyed with many opponents of divorce, who IMO lack a certain sort of honesty. Here's what I consider honesty: my father had opposed divorce, and he cited the example of his parents, who had hated each other, but who had refused to get divorced.

I call that honesty, because if marriages ought to maintained at whatever the cost, then the sort of marriage that my father's parents had had ought not to be ended. In fact, it can be argued that hostile marriages are the most morally correct sort of marriages, because their participants show how strongly they believe in marriage by refusing to get divorced. And participants in friendly marriages may be suspected of not really believing in marriage, since their friendliness makes belief in the goodness of the marital state totally unnecessary.

Opponents of divorce sometimes moan and groan about "the children", but sometimes children are better off with their parents divorced, and this argument does not hold for childless or grown-children marriages.

Also, many opponents of divorce are reluctant to criticize certain leading politicians for having gotten divorced, such as Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich; it is as if these opponents don't want to hold such people responsible for their actions. And one wonders why such people don't praise Bill and Hillary Clinton for refusing to get divorced.

Viti

I don't think anybody should be forced to stay in an unhappy situation. People change over time and the reasons they got married or the feelings they had are no longer valid.

I do however feel divorcing parents have a responsibility to separate as amicably as possible and not let their children see hatred and animosit between the two people they love the most. My nephew is a bit emotionally "off" as he is always subjected to horrible talk about his dad...who he is the spitting image of and who he wants to love him.

ju'iblex

and what about those who are still married? everyday i hear one of my parents <married 27 or so years> bitch and whine about one another.

echidna

I’m surprised I haven’t seen this topic very often, although to be fair I don’t hang out at SLS. For my own 2 cents worth, I’ll provide a snapshot of divorce 30 years ago.

From their divorce when I was 4, my parents went to court 13 times in 15 years of the most hostile of custody battles. Back in the 70’s no-fault divorce was non-existent & private investigators were necessary to prove fault. Our child psychologists became friends of the family while behind our backs they would provide our words in testimony to support one parent in criticism of the parenting techniques of the other. Dinner table conversation was dominated by the latest terrible thing that the other parent was doing. Add to that a judge prejudiced against my mother because she “is of Asian extraction”, and two parents still struggling with their own difficult childhoods.

My claim to fame if that if one is studying Family Law in Australia today, one is more than likely to encounter Beveridge vs Beveridge as a case instrumental in forming today’s Family Law Act.

Did it affect me ? You betcha. It took 10 years to understand those childhood dreams, and in hindsight I feel that somehow I missed out on the childhood which my friends had.

The only wisdom I can glean from all that angst, if you’re going to split, don’t keep fighting through the kids. Much easier said than done I expect.

BTW, I agree with ladyshea, can we close or shift the other thread ?

echidna

I reread that post of mine and remember those years a little more. Jeez what an understatement. Fucked up, yep, that probably describes those years pretty accurately.

lpetrich

I'm baffled at why it took so long to introduce no-fault divorce; I fail to see what is supposed to be so terrible about divorce by mutual agreement.

echidna

There will always be the argument that too much convenience trivialises what is a very important social institution. Drive thru weddings and drive-thru divorce chapels seem somehow inappropriate.

Chose from the following :

A : “… until death do us part”
B : “… until I find a better one”

From one extreme to the other, I guess. A is easier when one is expected to die at 35, however when we live twice as long, Option B finds serial monogamy as the more convenient option.

FWIW I still maintain that even without the fighting, divorce is generally not good for children. I think stability and support is important for childhood.

DRFseven

In addition to a host of other factors contributing to divorce, people now have this strange idea of being entitled to happiness. In the past, people, especially women (or girls, actually) went into marriage straight from their parents' homes and even difficult situations seemed better, in comparison, than that; at least, being married, they usually had more freedom than they did living under their parents' roof. In other words, in our cultures, there is just more exposure now than there used to be to the ability of adults to pursue happiness singly. When they marry and it turns out to cramp their style, they remember the previous happiness. I can't tell you how many people, contemplating divorce, have said to me, "You know, I used to be this fun person. Now look at me!"

Unfortunately, the children usually suffer (a recent widely broadcast study reported that people felt "bothered" by their parents' divorces long into adulthood). Children usually love both their parents and they often harbor secret wishes for reconciliation for years, sometimes even after their parents have remarried.

Recently a friend told me that her eleven-year-old son was showing her some things in his "treasure box" and they came across a family snapshot of her and his father with all three children before their divorce eight years ago. He acted slightly embarrassed about having the picture in there and told her he didn't even know why he still kept it; that he knew he'd never see the family together again like that. Now his father remarried and has had two children with his new wife and his mother has been with a man for three years. Her son was three years old when they divorced and yet he still could barely relinquish hope!

Still, I think staying together for the children can be a worse alternative, so there doesn't seem to be any help for the problem of children and divorce, other than just more education on how to do it the least hurtful way.

brighid

The reason there are so many divorces is because people get married for the wrong reasons! My parents got married at a very young age (17 and 19 respectively) to escape bad situations at home. They immediately started having children (me, the 1st of 3) and because they were totally fucked up, coming together they created a totally fucked up family. My brother is a felon, both my brother and sister have had serious drug and alcohol abuse problems and they have both repeated the errors of their parents. Each got married young, my brother now on his way to divorce at the age of 24, perpetuating the cycle of abuse in our family. His wife left him after he isolated her in a shit hole trailer in the desert of Arizona, beat her, caused her to have a miscarriage at 6 months pregnant, and all other sorts of lovely things. My sister left home at 15 and made it her mission in life to get pregnant, married or not. She managed to do so with a real winner of a guy – told her right to her face and within in earshot of me how much he would love to fuck me – and she still married the idiot. They are now on child #5, live in a small, rented house in the boonies. He works 100 hours a week to support them and has a drinking problem and spends about $200 a month on his cigarettes. One night he went out, got drunk and proceeded to get in an accident by hitting a police car with a cop in it! He may never get is license back and isn’t allowed to drive, but amazingly he does all the time! They nearly lost everything and he had to spend time in jail, while his wife and children had no one to support them! So, my sister keeps having more babies because she always needs someone to love her and her children are turning out just as fucked up as we were. But hey, they are just following the example of our lovely parents. And the reason my mom stayed for 23 years of abuse was because of her Catholic faith! It just makes me sick! I hate it when people have children they cannot emotionally, physically or financially support just because they are able to get pregnant!! And then they stay in abusive relationships because it’s better for the children – BULL SHIT! It’s not better for the children. It’s better for the children that the two miserable people fraudulently engaged in the bonds of a loving matrimony separate AMICABLY and let their children live in abuse free situations.

People enter into marriage too easily and too young. They have no concept of self and they think marriage will fix all their problems, or somehow marriage will make their partner change. And surprise, surprise a few years down the line nothing has changed, a few kids have cropped into the picture and they wonder – “Where did I go wrong?” DUH!

People can be so stupid!!

Sorry – had to vent. My family just drives me nuts! I swear, I must be adopted.


Brig

DarkDruid

I'm going to have to agree with brighid on this one. Religious people in particular seem to want to make other people stick together, even when they are miserable! Why is anybody's guess... uphold the statis quo or "institution" or marraige, I guess. To me, it seems like an utter bullshit idea that is so obviously *wrong* that it should be readily appearant to anybody with half a brain.

My own family was rather dysfunctional in this way, and my mom finally worked up the nerve to get a divorce when I was 15. It was a good thing she did, because my father is rather crafty legal-wise, and might've got us kids if we wern't able to speak for ourselves in court. My mom always apologizes for all this, but I simply remind her that (from my perspective) it was either fighting in the home or fighting in the court. The nature of the fighting stayed the same, and only the place changed.