Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 05-16-2003, 05:29 PM

dying churches

Some freethinkers have predicted or hoped for the withering away of religion. This seems to be happening to the old mainline Protestant churches in the east.

Quote:

A Journal News review of the five most prominent mainline denominations shows that their membership in New York City and the surrounding suburbs has fallen by 45 percent since the heyday of 1960, when the spiritual descendants of Luther, Calvin and Wesley composed the white-bread religious mainstream.

The five denominations � the United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Episcopal Church, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the United Church of Christ � have been loath to close churches and sell off valuable real estate. As a result, they continue to operate more than 1,000 churches in the region for 300,000 members.

By comparison, the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York runs 414 parishes for an estimated 2.5 million Catholics.

"For decades, the mainline churches were in denial; for the past few years, people were grieving for the days of yore," said the Rev. Michael Caine, minister of the Southeastern Region of the New York Conference of the United Church of Christ. . . .

That's why you may be seeing ads for the Methodist Church in TV claiming that they have "open minds, open hearts, open doors."

JCS · 05-17-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

That's why you may be seeing ads for the Methodist Church in TV claiming that they have "open minds, open hearts, open doors."

Economically forced sensibilities, I like it, but still doubt it.

Vorkosigan · 05-18-2003, 06:01 PM

Yes, but that doesn't mean Christianity is declining. The destruction of the mainline churches is a great tragedy for the US, since they have been replaced not by even more rational modes of religion, but by fundy wackos bent on authoritarian domination. Maybe we atheists ought to start trying to find a way to shore up those churches.

Toto · 05-18-2003, 06:47 PM

The thought of that has crossed my mind.

nowhereman · 05-18-2003, 06:59 PM

I think the decline of mainline Christianity is a good sign. It means that the "rational" Christians are becoming more secular and atheist. There never was any hope for the fundys in the first place.

The rational people are becoming more decidedly rational, while the fundies are becoming more decidedly fundy.

Undercurrent · 05-18-2003, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nowhereman
The rational people are becoming more decidedly rational, while the fundies are becoming more decidedly fundy.

I don't think that's entirely true. There's probably a class of christian who would behave very rationally in an unchallenging milieu, but will actively switch from liberal christian to fundy shithead in the face of expanding secularism. It isn't just that the liberal churches are losing members to secular life leaving the fundies with the satge to themselves, but they're probably actively losing members to fundy churches on the other side, as well.

Dargo · 05-19-2003, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Undercurrent
It isn't just that the liberal churches are losing members to secular life leaving the fundies with the satge to themselves, but they're probably actively losing members to fundy churches on the other side, as well.

That's certainly true. Many of the new members who joined fundy churches I used to attend came from mainstream Protestant denominations. A common pattern was that people would attend other churches semi-regularly when they were growing up. They would drop out of church for several years after graduating from high school, then get "saved" again at a fundy church. Fundies put a lot more effort into getting new members than the older denominations.

lpetrich · 05-19-2003, 11:24 AM

And what happens to the non-fundie church dropouts who don't become fundies? Do they become New Agers or something like that?

Psycho Economist · 05-20-2003, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich
And what happens to the non-fundie church dropouts who don't become fundies? Do they become New Agers or something like that?

They just identify as whatever denomination they were raised as (in the census and phone polls but not congregational rolls), buy Christmas trees and Easter baskets. But they'll never bring it up in conversation unless there's some CS&S court case, when they'll demand the right for fellow Christians to worship as they see fit at the expense of religious minorities.

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05-18-2003, 06:01 PM	#3
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Yes, but that doesn't mean Christianity is declining. The destruction of the mainline churches is a great tragedy for the US, since they have been replaced not by even more rational modes of religion, but by fundy wackos bent on authoritarian domination. Maybe we atheists ought to start trying to find a way to shore up those churches.

05-18-2003, 06:47 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The thought of that has crossed my mind.

05-18-2003, 06:59 PM	#5
nowhereman Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Nowhereland Posts: 24	I think the decline of mainline Christianity is a good sign. It means that the "rational" Christians are becoming more secular and atheist. There never was any hope for the fundys in the first place. The rational people are becoming more decidedly rational, while the fundies are becoming more decidedly fundy.

05-19-2003, 11:24 AM	#8
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	And what happens to the non-fundie church dropouts who don't become fundies? Do they become New Agers or something like that?

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