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Originally posted by Darth Dane
And coversely, why assume there isn't one? Just because we can't see it? We can't see the signals from a satelitte, but we believe they are there because we can see television now, 500 years ago teh notion of a televison would be absurd, because back then they coudln't see the electricity.
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Why assume there is no synergy between your choice of shirts and earthquakes? You can assume this is you want, but keep in mind that this opens a Pandora's Box of possible synergies - rain and the way my socks smell, snow and the mating habits of the roaches in Joan Smith's kitchen cabinet, volcanic activity and the number of times a day Mbebe Tho sits down in an hour.
Now, the above seem ridiculous, don't they? Why rule them out? If you have a reasonable answer to this (and you probably do), then you have an equally reasonable answer to the question you posed to me.
As for the second statement - we don't believe signals are there because we have t.v. We know they are they because we can measure them, predict their behaviour you, generate them, etc.
Your argument here is basically saying "there were things we didn't know then, so we should believe in everything, just to be sure" or similarly, "we did not know about 'x', and know 'x' can be measured. Therefore, that supports the existence in 'y' and 'z'." This is just bad reasoning.
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Yes, sounds like chaos theory, doesn't it?
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No. You might want to familiarize yourself with the basic of Chaos Theory. I think you're thinking of "the butterfly that caused the hurricane" problem. Neither Chaos Theory nor the "butterfly" problem deal with purpose or good/bad behaviour.
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What is "SOMMS"? We can't prove some things.
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Satan Oscillate my Metallic Sonatas - posts here all the time. He too has issues with evidence and proof.
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Me: Any evidence is only evidence of delusion or conspiracy.
DD: That seems farfetched
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Yes, I agree.
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How so? Where you present when earth was created? Or teh universe?
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Take a first-year geology course, or biology course, or buy a $10.00 book on either subject at the book store. I wasn't present at your conception, either. Should I have doubts as to when it occurred? How could I find out? How could I be sure? Apply your answers to your own question re: the earth's age.
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Me: As for your second comment - god could have created you just now, and implanted all your memories from before. So discount everything anyone has ever told you, because it didn't really happen. Nor have you ever accomplished anything.
DD: True in a sense.
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As true as your original statement. Nothing, in the logic you provide, distinguishes these two things. What good is life experience if it could all be an illusion?
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DD: We come from ameoba, that came to be through teh dirt somehow..perhaps?
Me: No.
DD: Do you absolutely know?
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That ameoba are not made of dirt? Yes.
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1) true, but a meteor could have caused teh flood.
2) Not sure what you mean, but the grand canyon could be teh evidence.
3) Yes and?
4) no, but the animals in the arch survived no?
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1) No, it could not have (and to be clear, the bible never mentions an asteroid impact)
2) Evidence of what? A global flood? No, it isn't.
3) A global flood cannot be plausibly reconstructed
4) Supposedly, I'm simply saying that the Yucatan asteroid collision did not wipe out all life
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Me: Solar eclipse:
1) does not make the sun stop
2) cannot possibly be confused for making the sun stop
3) demonstrates that the bible erred, if this is the case [/i]
DD:
1) Could appear to have stopped to peasants and less knowledgeable people than we are now!
2) The sun "stops" for a brief moment, it is entirely dark! I myself have witnessed it, and it could be perceived as a stoopage.
3) It could have been a metaphorical way the bible is written in.
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1. Cultures far prior to BC wrote of eclipses (and I've yet to see one desciption of this event as the sun stopping). Plus, you can visible see the moon passing in front of the sun.
2. What you mean is that the sun "goes away" for a moment....it also "goes away" for 12 hours every day.
3. That's a big stretch. Can you find a scholar that agrees with this position?
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How can anything be trusted?
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Well, that's your view...
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Science and religion are only tools in explaining reality.
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You're half-right.
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Consider this: "A zen master wakes up and says; I just dreamt I was a butterfly, now I wonder if I am me that dreamt he was a butterfly, or if I am a butterfly that is dreaming he is me!"
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That's an oldie, for sure. Some people spend their whole lives asking themselves this question. These people are usually quite ill, and I'm not being facetious. It is a disfunction in the brain that causes a disconnect with reality. Most people you'll meet in your life may have had dreams so real that it evoked a visceral response, but few (if any) will experience the dilemma shown above.
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If we in no way can prove that teh entire universe is not someones dream, like God or a God, from where do we know anything? Where does our knowledge come from? Where does our thoughts come from?
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If that's true, then where does your knowledge (or feelings) about god come from?
If you really apply this view to life, then life, and everything in it, becomes quite and thoroughly meaningless.
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When you dream, would it be possible that other humans have a freewill there? That is NOT governed by you? How will youh prove to me that you are correct and I am wrong?
DD - Love Spliff
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Dreams, like many other things, can be measured and monitored as brain activity.
The question you ask may not be possible to answer, but you would be the one required to provide the evidence. Good luck.
Besides, a physician could presribe something for you that will basically eliminate all dreams altogether. Problem solved as the point becomes moot (unless they invade someone else's dreams).
05-11-2003, 03:44 PM
