winstonjen

My friend Shadownought helped me come up with a solid definition of it, IMO.

Murder, to me, is the killing of someone else for deplorable motives.

Therefore, to me, suicide is not murder, as you are only killing yourself, not anyone else.

Euthanasia is not murder - it is done out of respect for the other person's autonomy, and with the motive of ending their suffering. We euthanise our pets all the time, and that is not considered to be murder.

What are your views on this?

Seraphim

My friend Shadownought helped me come up with a solid definition of it, IMO.

Murder, to me, is the killing of someone else for deplorable motives.

Therefore, to me, suicide is not murder, as you are only killing yourself, not anyone else.

Euthanasia is not murder - it is done out of respect for the other person's autonomy, and with the motive of ending their suffering. We euthanise our pets all the time, and that is not considered to be murder.

What are your views on this?

My reply : I never did like this subject - suicide. To me, only someone who is either a coward or someone who has no way other than death could commit suicide.

You say that mirder is killing for a certain motive. Why don't you look at the motive behind those killings?

We have Killing for justice - where the society sentence a hardened criminal to die so he or she couldn't effect the society in bad ways. In my country, drug dealers and killers get this.

We have Killing for sake of a country - usually soldiers, or even other armed forces.

We have Killing for self-defence - where one individual can kill another in attempt to save himself or someone else.

We have Euthanise, where a person end another person misery because the other person have no way out except death to end his/her misery. In my country, I don't remember any cases where such practise occurred.

However, in my point of view, Suicide is still consider a Murder and not a Euthanise. Euthanise is seems to be acceptable where ALL options for survival had be tried and failed.

Those who commit a suicide usually those who are weak-minded and too lazy to try other options available for them and have nothing wrong with them physically which could merit taking their own lives.

Death effects ALL around you, and don't think you could simply escape life by dying. Your family members and friends will get dragged through the mud of emotions because of your death. In that context, Hell do exist ... and it is your family and friends who goes there instead of you.

winstonjen

I don't like how people immediately clump suicidal people (when depressed) as losers that are selfish. If you want them to stay alive, why don't you give them reasons to live instead of reasons to die? If they feel like they're selfish and worthless, that's another reason to commit suicide.

Why do they want their family member to live? For their own selfish reasons, or for the family member to be happy and live a productive life? Guilt trips are NOT the answer.

Seraphim

I don't like how people immediately clump suicidal people (when depressed) as losers that are selfish. If you want them to stay alive, why don't you give them reasons to live instead of reasons to die? If they feel like they're selfish and worthless, that's another reason to commit suicide.

My reply : Reason for you to live? How am I supposed to give you a reason to live if I don't have a reason why I should live myself?

Living doesn't need a reason nor excuse, you just need to have something to look forward to live - friends, family, something that you wish to learn, something you wish to share, something you wish to see and something you wish to create.

If all you know is how miseable you are, then you are indeed miseable. IF you think you are the only one in the world who is suffering (depressed or anything else), keep dreaming. There are people far worse than you other who struggling everyday to live instead of using that as an excuse to pop themselves.


Why do they want their family member to live? For their own selfish reasons, or for the family member to be happy and live a productive life? Guilt trips are NOT the answer.

My reply : How about a simple answer to that - Love. Your family members and friends loves you and if you don't know that much, then you are right when you say you are a selfish person.

Maybe the reason you are in such depressed situation is because you are only care about yourself. Ever tried caring for others?

winstonjen

Here you directly contradicted what you said earlier. Something to look forward to IS a reason to live.

I think you're the dreamer here. No offense, but everyone has their own pain threshold, both mental and physical. What is OK for you is not OK for the next guy down the road.

No, then I would be as bad as the suicidal person. If you want them to live for yourself, not for them, you're being selfish too.

I never said that, you assumed it. And assuming makes an ASS out of U and ME. How dare you say I only care about myself when you don't even know me??!?

Seraphim

Here you directly contradicted what you said earlier. Something to look forward to IS a reason to live.

My reply : Nope, I didn't contradict anything. I did say that Living do not need a reason or an excuse to do so, just something to look forward to. I don't have a reason to live nor do I wish to find a reason to live. I live simply because I think I could do something (trying hard to do it now) in the future and that is good enough for me.
A friend of mine have this saying "Live Well, Fight Well, Die Well". Live is a fight all the way, and I don't need an excuse nor reason to fight. To live is good enough to fight by itself.

I think you're the dreamer here. No offense, but everyone has their own pain threshold, both mental and physical. What is OK for you is not OK for the next guy down the road.

My reply : No offence taken.
If you think what you feel is relevant to the next person, then you should also understand that what I said also irrelevant to you. In that context, WHY do you need to find an acceptance from anyone else about Suicide?

No, then I would be as bad as the suicidal person. If you want them to live for yourself, not for them, you're being selfish too.

My reply : Can you cut your ties (emotional bondage) with your family and friends? Also your loved ones as well?
You are part of a circle where people each depends on one another (emotionally most of the time, physical sometimes), you cannot simply cut such ties away and walk away without leaving some scar on another person, can you?
In that context, they are living for you, maybe it is time you start living for sake of others as well.

I never said that, you assumed it. And assuming makes an ASS out of U and ME. How dare you say I only care about myself when you don't even know me??!?

My reply : Hmph ... you made this thread, are you not? You asked to accept suicide as something other than wasted death, did you not? That's the reason I assumed such. I WILL not apologize since I don't believe I did anything wrong.

It is true that I don't know you. Why don't you start by telling everyone about yourself and WHY you think that suicide is anything but a wasted death?

Grizzly

Hi all,

This thread is really not about Non-Abrahamic religions, so I am moving it to Moral Foundations and Principles.

Grizzly

Moderator

winstonjen

*sigh* I never said that suicide is NEVER a wasted death, just that it is different from murder, and there are times when it is justified. I made this thread, but you agreed to post of your own free will, am I right?

Living for its own sake is the most pointless and meaningless existence, IMO. By your argument, everyone about to die should be hooked up to life support and kept alive artificially until they are 200 years old or so.

I merely meant that you should admit that you made a mistake in assuming I was suicidally depressed at this time. You misunderstood my post. I thought I had made it quite clear.

tronvillain

That probably is most people's definition of murder, but you have to keep in mind that not everyone will agree what a "deplorable motive" is. For me, a large quantity of money is only a deplorable motive for other people. *chuckle*

Seraphim

*sigh* I never said that suicide is NEVER a wasted death, just that it is different from murder, and there are times when it is justified. I made this thread, but you agreed to post of your own free will, am I right?

My reply : You out to get acceptance for suicide by playing with words? I did sound like that to me ...
What is a difference between "Murder" and "Kill"?

Living for its own sake is the most pointless and meaningless existence, IMO. By your argument, everyone about to die should be hooked up to life support and kept alive artificially until they are 200 years old or so.

My reply : Hmph ... you don't seems to know about life or death.
Life's means comes NOT because you are living, but because you are about to die.
Living is not about wasting your time waiting for death either, it is making a mark for yourself - call it a contribution for sake of other who will come, to show that you didn't waste your existence and everyone's time now.

I merely meant that you should admit that you made a mistake in assuming I was suicidally depressed at this time. You misunderstood my post. I thought I had made it quite clear.

My reply : OK ... I misunderstood your post ... happy now?