GeoTheo

I find your hanging out here and critiquing Christianity interesting. What do you feel you have in common with atheists besides a dislike for Christianity? I find it interesting that a hindu (generally
idealist monists) would seek to side with atheists (generally materialists) in order to criticize Christians who
are generally dualists.
If atheists main beef with Christianity is our belief in the supernatural at least we are half right. We believe
in a materialist Universe. Wheras I would assume hindus would be regarded as having everything wrong
because they believe all is composed of spirit and the the material universe is an illusion. So If We Christians
are deluded about our belief in God hindus should be regarded as deluded about everything.

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: GeoTheo ]

[ November 04, 2002: Message edited by: Grizzly ]</p>

0n0w1c

why do you hang out here in non-abrahamic religions if you are a christian?

i used to be a christian and my main beef is that christianity is barbaric, subconciously teaching hate. you can believe all of the supernatural stuff you want... it is your belief in an absolute truth and grants the rights to destroy or condemn based on your or more likely someone elses interpretation of that absolute truth.

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: 0n0w1c ]</p>

hinduwoman

Several points:

1. I am an atheist actually, but culturally a Hindu

2. I do not believe in Hindu gods. But I object to Christian arrogance at thinking they are the only way and in the efforts of their missionaries to deculture converts on the grounds that Western/Christian culture is superior, and formenting conflict. Teaching the Easterner about computers is one thing, replacing belief in a victorious goddess Kali with a victim nailed on a cross is not an improvement, socially or morally.

3. It is a common misconception that Hindus think
world to be an illusion. The term maya does not mean illusion in the sense of unreality. It means that the material world,which has an objective existence is a lesser reality because God/Brahman is the Ultimate Reality. The food we eat is real,but due to ignorance we think it is the only real thing --- man must see that Brahman is even in the food. God is both manifest and unmanifest. That is why it is laid down that he who focuses on God alone,ignoring this world and not doing any work would go to a deeper hell than mere atheists.
Hindu philosophic schools also include dualism, atheistic schools of various types and a highly materialistic school which holds this world to be the only reality and there is no soul.

lpetrich

Sort of like the movie "The Matrix".

GeoTheo

Hinuwoman,
Thank you for your response. Are you of the "Carvaka" philosophical school of thought?
Also, I understand Hindus are considered more inclusivistic because they believe there are "many paths to God" do you believe this?
I am not sure how you can if you are an atheist.
So are you saying that if you did believe in God you would believe in many paths?
A brief note about missionaries:
My Church only supports missionaries in India that are Indian nationals. These are Christians that are trying to spread the gospel throughout India.
When Christ was on Earth he only came to those in need of a physician. I think that the gospel follows the same principle. The gospel offends people with a high view of themselves, But is often recieved by people that are more humble and have fewer illusions of their own greatness.
Christianity is spreading in India fastest among the lower castes. These are people with whom hinduism has less to offer.
If a person truly had the view that there are many paths to God, I don't see how they would find this offensive. I suspect the reaction to conversions of Christianity in India is little different than the pharisees reaction to Christ. The religious establishment abjects to the loss of power they had exarcised overthe lower classes.
Your opinion?

hinduwoman

Uh Ipetrich, don't get it though I have seen the movie.

hinduwoman

Yes, without being a formal philosopher I do belong to the Carvaka school --- updated of course with modern science!

Since I don't believe in God I don't believe in any kind of spirituality; but obviously if I was religious, then as a Hindu I would have believed that "Whoever worships me by any name comes to me"

Geo, your very view that Gospel promotes humility and offends those with high view of themselves is a kind of arrogance --- there are none so humble as ourselves.

A Hindu does not have a problem with Christ as such. However the problem occurs when the missionaries insist that theirs is the only TRUE path; when a Christian declares that he violates the very principle you are basing your argument on. Also why do you Christians think that Hindus should meekly swallow insults that shiva cannot save anyone because he himself is immersed in sin, or that all Hindus are going to hell? You resent atheists calling you names, but for some reason do not see it as insult when you abuse another religion.

Screams of Christian councils that they have the right to convert while protesting most vehemently at efforts of Hindu organizations to convert Christians expose their hypocrisy.

Share the gospel (without abuse) and do good works, but telling people that they should not support their aged parents who refused to convert has nothing to do with religious establishments losing power.

Whether you are supporting the Catholics or Baptists, my advice is don't.
Read my webpage and see why there is such animus against missionaries, high ranking priests that spill over to Christianity.<a href="http://www.hindunet.com/home/social_contemporary_issues/hinduwoman/mislies.htm" target="_blank">web page</a>

lpetrich

In the movie, some supercomputers create a fake "reality" for the human population, and that's what I was making an analogy to.

lpetrich

Something like "I'm proud of how humble I am". Or in the Bible (Numbers 12:3), "Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth."

The first 5 books of the Bible have traditionally been attributed to Moses; this implies that Moses had not been the author of that comment, since if one brags about how humble one is, one is not acting very humble.

It's a bit like the liar paradox: the statement S that says "S is false". If S is true, then S must be false; if S is false, than S must be true.

GeoTheo

Hinduwoman:

disagreeing with another religion is not abuse.
Thinking people are going to hell is not abuse either. You act as though you think hell is real and we Christians are putting people there. Christians don't believe people go to hell for being hindus. That is a false statement. Christians think all people are bound to hell unless they are saved. Hindus believe all people are bound to suffer also through cycles of rebirth. Christians offer hope in the next life not after the next 100,000. Many people in India, IMO live hellish lives and have no problem accepting the idea of hell. Untouchables, historically have been treated as human refuse by others that were part of the caste system. I don't think it is at all strange that many people of this social class have converted to Christianity. What did hinduism have to offer them? The Hindu system held that they had no hope of salvation in this life. All they could hope to do is suffer well and get rid of bad Karma and come back as a brahmin in the next life and then perhaps be saved. Christianity is far more egalitarian than that. Salvation is available to all not just a special privelidged class. I also don't see why endless cycles of death and suffering is so great an alternative. That is a type of Hell in itself.