Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Coragyps · 03-15-2003, 09:49 AM

Hi, Kuglo, and welcome! I liked your exchange with Behe - you might want to go to Antievolution.org , introduce yourself, and post it there as well. I think you would be very welcome there.

Principia · 03-15-2003, 11:08 AM

The problem is, Kuglo, that you haven't said anything that Behe hasn't likely heard already. And to be honest, at the rate IDiot arguments are evolving, there are internet IDiots with more of a clue about what Behe means by "irreducible complexity" than Behe himself. What you are likely to get by screaming at a man that he is wrong, wrong, wrong, every other post, is a few short replies, and an excuse not to continue the dialogue. Wait. I think that's exactly what happened. :banghead:

Principia · 03-15-2003, 11:20 AM

LOL, Clay... going straight into the IDiot stronghold, already? Dude. Chill.

Principia · 03-15-2003, 11:22 AM

Well, we might as well keep a record of what was posted:

Quote:

I don't know why Dembski and others in his camp continue to press evolutionists for an "explanation" of how things like flagella arose. The worst case scenerio for an evolutionist is that every single codon to for the flagella alleles mutated randomly all at once. Evolution doesn't _have_ to be gradual. It's just a matter of how likely a given mutational step between a parent and offspring is. The probability of flagella genes mutating in one single macro-mutation event might be small, but they are obviously greater than zero. And there is no other known process besides normal non-intelligent mutative processes, that can even in _theory_ cause such a thing.
Dembski believes in intelligent design. The onus is on him to demonstrate any verifiable processes which are both intelligent and have a propensity to create things like flagella DNA. Until he and/or his constituents provide this there is no need of any explanation other than mutation/selection for any observed biological feature. The intelligent design argument is so ridiculously illogical its a wonder that prominent scientists feel the need to provide evolutionary explanations for them.
For a more elaborate exrpanation of the holes in the ID argument see my debate with Michael Behe at:
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=47942

And count how long it lasts at ISCID.

gcameron · 03-15-2003, 07:17 PM

The burden of proof is getting passed around like a hot potato.

KC · 03-17-2003, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gcameron
The burden of proof is getting passed around like a hot potato.

And certain people's hands haven't even gotten warm.

KC

Kuglo · 03-18-2003, 01:23 PM

Mutations are observed. Natural selection is also observed. We've satisfied our burden of evidence. Creationists haven't, period.

03-15-2003, 09:49 AM	#1
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	For Kuglo Hi, Kuglo, and welcome! I liked your exchange with Behe - you might want to go to Antievolution.org , introduce yourself, and post it there as well. I think you would be very welcome there.

03-15-2003, 11:08 AM	#2
Principia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: anywhere Posts: 1,976	IDiots are reproducing... The problem is, Kuglo, that you haven't said anything that Behe hasn't likely heard already. And to be honest, at the rate IDiot arguments are evolving, there are internet IDiots with more of a clue about what Behe means by "irreducible complexity" than Behe himself. What you are likely to get by screaming at a man that he is wrong, wrong, wrong, every other post, is a few short replies, and an excuse not to continue the dialogue. Wait. I think that's exactly what happened. :banghead:

03-18-2003, 01:23 PM	#7
Kuglo Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lawrence, KS, USA Posts: 11	Burden of Proof Mutations are observed. Natural selection is also observed. We've satisfied our burden of evidence. Creationists haven't, period.

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03-15-2003, 11:20 AM	#3
Principia Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: anywhere Posts: 1,976	LOL, Clay... going straight into the IDiot stronghold, already? Dude. Chill.

03-15-2003, 07:17 PM	#5
gcameron Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Western U.S.A. Posts: 293	The burden of proof is getting passed around like a hot potato.

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