Steven Carr

One not built by hands? Should be worth seeing.

CX

Please amplify this comment. Having studied reasonable extensively for a dilletante, I can think of no example of fulfilled prophecy anywhere in the bible.

Radcliffe Emerson

These "prophecies" only seem to be coming true because people keep insisting on believing myths, compelling them to hate each other because the other side doesn't worship a mythical deity like the first side, i.e. Israel and Palestine.

St. Robert

The rebirth of Israel as a nation in 1948 after 2600 years of worldwide Jewish dispersion was a major Hebrew prophecy fulfilled (Ezekiel 38:8).

In 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Paul describes the lawless one or Antichrist who will pronounce himself God in the temple of God. Because no such temple exists in Jerusalem today, it must rebuilt for a third time to fulfill this prophecy.

If I were to guess, part of a future Middle East peace agreement between the Palestinians and the Jews would include allowing the Jews to rebuild the Temple on Mount Moriah, where the Dome of the Rock currently stands. The Jews presently have the blueprints to build such a Temple.

Skeptical

Ummm, I don't think Ezekial 38:8 is what your looking for: (from the NAB)
"After many days you will be mustered against a nation which has survived the sword, which has been assembled from many peoples, which has been brought forth from among the peoples and all of whom now dwell in security"

I don't see much that relates to 1948, so I can only assume you listed the wrong verse. If this is the verse you wanted, to say it's quite a stretch to match this to the events of 1948 is being extremely kind.

Also, there is doubt that 2 Thessalonians was even written by Paul due to the apocalyptic content of its writings, and if it was written by Paul then the temple hadn't fallen yet, so Paul was not prophesying anything. (see <a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com" target="_blank">www.earlychristianwritings.com</a> regarding authorship of 2 Thessalonians)

Your other statements regard things that have not happened, so obviously can't be counted as prophecies, not to mention that saying the Jews will rebuild their temple is hardly a "long odds" bet.

Finally, your aware, of course, that many other groups and individuals have claimed the power of prophecy that were not Jewish or Christian. For example, a guy you might have heard of named Nostradamous. Unfortunately, his "prophecies" are so hit and miss, so open to interpretation that they are meaningless.

Given that the OT was supposed to be inspired by someone with a little more vision than a mere mortal, don't you think there could have been something a little more indicative of divine inspiration. For example, a _clear_ unambiguous prophecy like "a leader named Adolf Hitler will exterminate 7 million Jews during a conflict that will come to be known as the second world war" or something along those lines.

Kinda curious, don't you think, that nothing even close to this sort of clear, unambiguous prophecy is found in the OT? (and please don't point to "prophecies" about Yeshua of Nazareth since it is quite likely the stories in the NT were "made to fit")

BTW, having prophets during times of trial and tribulation say something equivalent to "the Lord has not saved us now, but one day he will return us to our land/power/splendor/good old days/etc..." is quite underwhelming in terms of prophecy for a divine being.

Thor Q. Mada

Skeptical,

I think that if you want to use the bible to predict the furture, then there is not too much difference between the two.

-Both are a compilation of incoherent ramblings
-Both can only be used to predict the furture with hindsight
-Both are suuciciently vague to make all explanations possible
-Both give a sense of security to people who obviously need it
-Both are irrelevant
-Both appeal to the "dooms-thinking" insecure human mind.

And yes, statistically speaking, one day, our species will probably not be on this planet anymore.

St. Robert

Skeptical,

You wear your name well. Let's try Ezekiel 34:11-16,25-31.

'For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness. I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. (Jews from all over the world are currently migrating to Israel)

I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. I will tend them in a good pasture, and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in good grazing land, and there they will feed in a rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign LORD. I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice.

'I will make a covenant of peace with them and rid the land of wild beasts so that they may live in the desert and sleep in the forests in safety. I will bless them and the places surrounding my hill. I will send down showers in season; there will be showers of blessing. The trees of the field will yield their fruit and the ground will yield its crops; the people will be secure in their land. They will know that I am the LORD , when I break the bars of their yoke and rescue them from the hands of those who enslaved them. They will no longer be plundered by the nations, nor will wild animals devour them. They will live in safety, and no one will make them afraid. I will provide for them a land renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations. Then they will know that I, the LORD their God, am with them and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, declares the Sovereign LORD . You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are people, and I am your God, declares the Sovereign LORD .' "

Thor Q. Mada

Sorry guys for not using my spell checker.

Skeptical

This is a little better, but it's still the same sort of vague, "feel good cuz the Lord loves Israel and the Jews" writings that are common throughout the OT. As I said earlier:

"BTW, having prophets during times of trial and tribulation say something equivalent to "the Lord has not saved us now, but one day he will return us to our land/power/splendor/good old days/etc..." is quite underwhelming in terms of prophecy for a divine being."

I noticed you didn't care to address my comments about the relative commonality of "prohphecies" of this sort to those by individuals like Nostradamous and the utter lack of clear, unambiguous prophecies in either the OT or NT. I stand by my earlier comments. The kind of flowery, feel good, nebulous language of the passages such as the one you quote are decidedly underwhelming as prophecies from a divine being. The best that can be said is its fairly good prose, but so is Tolkein and I don't consult his work for prophecy.

I give these passages the same weight as "prophecy" as I do the stories by "alien abductees" that claim they are taken by beings who are vastly more intelligent and advanced than ourselves and then tell the "abductees" things like, "nuclear war is bad". Well, yeah... but couldn't you tell us something we didn't already know?

Ion

This is a well argued thread, started by Methodissed.
That's impressive.