elusive sky

Does anyone know about this theory? I just learned about it today and haven't really had the time to investigate it much, but essentially it proposes that the story of Jesus was invented by the royal Roman Piso family, and that Arrius Calpurnius Piso was the historian Flavius Josephus, and that he was the first to give name to Jesus Christ. This is a breif synopsis of the theory, there are more in depth articles available to search.

<a href="http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/WIN9091.htm" target="_blank">http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/WIN9091.htm</a>

The theory is weak on biblical references and relies on the Revelation of John which is highly interpretative to say the least. But it's stronger of roman history and lineage. It's also weak on the attitudes and beliefs expressed by Josephus, Tactics, Pliny the Younger and other roman historians, but, as far as I can tell, there is no factual flaw that kills the theory. Although I haven't deeply read it, which is why I'm asking here. Then again, it's not been disproven that Jesus didn't drive a Subaru over the Himalayas, and the Jesus Subaru theory is a contending theory as of ... today.

I'll post more info on this theory later when I have time and if I don't hear major flaws to it from anyone here.

Jayhawker Soule

To be absolutely honest, I got to the line which reads:"First, know that there is a hidden war going on, it is now in progress, and it is the result of the conspiracy that was initiated back in the first century C.E." and got really pissed at you for wasting my time.

elusive sky

Here's a more authoratative link

<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/wi/famtree/josari.html" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/wi/famtree/josari.html</a>
<a href="http://members.tripod.com/~senorlopezd/" target="_blank">http://members.tripod.com/~senorlopezd/</a>

Now, if you can keep your criticisms to the material and not to me, it would be more informative.

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: elusive sky ]</p>

Peter Kirby

"It's not my theory. I just wrote two essays for those guys." - Norman Doering

"I also think it is a joke theory -- but a
good one, and you can't prove it is wrong." - Norman Doering

[The Piso theory "would be laughed out of any ancient history department."]

"I agree. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have a purpose and isn't worth reading or arguing about. Recall that many Christian groups use the same numbers and methods of interpretation to predict
things like the coming of Armageddon, the Piso theory exposes that use of numbers and interpretation via parallels as being very flexible for someone with a creative mind. Such interpretations are invented on purpose and have a purpose -- maybe, lest I give too much away." - Norman Doering

best,
Peter Kirby

Toto

I prefer the theory that the gospels started as a lost play by Seneca.

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000766&p=" target="_blank">Is Senaca the Author of a play that led to the Gospels? </a>

elusive sky

Yes, on reading the theory more, I agree it's almost deliberately bad. I thought the only thing worth considering was the questioning of the identity of Flavius Josephus, which deserves some scrutiny. His life story is rather fantastic and his own autobiography is erroneous and inflated.

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: elusive sky ]</p>

Michael Ledo

While I am convinced there were elements within the Roman Empire which aided the creation of Christianity, I can not buy into the Piso theory as stated by Roman Piso at his web page and I was banned for making criticisms. I can not imagine thousands of people having knowledge of this and no one ever in 2 thousnd years coming forward and proclaiming it. Nor can I but into the idea of phantom manuscripts with numbered texts. I might be convinced Josephus wrote Luke/ACTS, but was he really a Piso? I wrote a littel about the theory in "Bible Blooper:Evidence That Demands a Verdict Too!"

Most of us are familiar with the great conspiracy theory involving international Jewish bankers controlling the world and that white Christian Americans are somehow descended from the Northern Ten Tribes of Israel. (The Ten Tribes were actually carried off by the Assyrians. They intermarried with the Assyrians, became part of their culture, and no longer exist as such.) Genealogies tracing European royalty back to the Ten Tribes were faked in the Middle Ages to prove the King ruled by divine right. These forged documents along with the fictional Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, the spoof Report from Iron Mountain, and the mythological story of Noah’s sons make for the basis of the world’s most bizarre conspiracy theory, along with Freemasons, the Illuminati, and a bevy of dead Kennedys.
 The second most bizarre conspiracy theory is that Arius Calpurnius Piso and his family, along with Pliny the Younger, invented the story of Jesus and wrote all of the New Testament, including the Apocrypha, the works of Josephus, Clement of Rome, St. Ignatius, and St. Polcarp. The reasoning behind the forgeries was to convert the Jews into a more passive religion using their own doctrine. The idea of eliminating Jewish culture was previously attempted by the Greeks (the Maccabean revolt period).
 In 60 A.D. Lucius Calpurnius Piso wrote Ur-Mark, a book that no longer exists. Seneca encouraged Piso, and Persius the poet aided him. Nero was against the idea. Piso attempted to assassinate Nero. The plan failed. Piso and Seneca were forced to commit suicide.
 Lucius’s son Arius continued with the scheme and wrote Matthew, Mark, and Luke (Luke with the aid of Pliny) between 70-90 A.D. Arius plagiarized the Old Testament and placed himself into the character of Jesus. Arius also wrote the works of Josephus between 75-105 A.D. The Jews refused to convert and wrote the story of Jesus ben Pantiri, which showed they knew Jesus was forged by Piso by portraying Jesus as the illegitimate son of a Roman Centurion.
 In the days of Piso there were no copyright laws. Authors identified themselves in literature using a Pythagorean numbering system. Using various systems, Arius’ numbers used to identify him are 26, 41, and 60. Piso is identified in Matthew as follows:
 26: The first chapter has 25 verses. 1+25=26.
 41: the actual number of generations from Abraham to Jesus. This genealogy is listed in the Old Testament with a few extra names and with some names omitted. Why were those names removed in Matthew?
 60: the crucial verse in Matthew is 1:17 which recites the number 14 three times. 14+14+14+17+1=60! Let’s forget for one moment that no manuscript exists showing a verse numbering system in this age. This was allegedly done on the private copies which no longer exist.  
 Luke:
 26: the crucial verse in Luke is 3:23 because it recites Jesus’ age. 3+23=26!
 41: Chapter 3 has 38 verses. 3+38=41!
 60: the generations from Jesus to Abraham total 57 plus chapter 3 total 60. (In Matthew if we added the verse to the generations we would get 42. Consistency is not important.)
 Needless to say this system proves nothing. All kinds of numbers can be derived by adding chapter and verse, or not, and using various counting systems. We could demonstrate Piso wrote the Constitution. The Constitution was signed in 1787 which equals 23, plus 3 bodies of government total 26!
 This knowledge of the Piso conspiracy has been passed down through the ages via the “Inner Circle” or “Inner Ring,” a secret anti-Semitic society. Members include Poe, Bacon, Shakespeare, Milton, Arthur Conan Doyle, Tolstoy, Tennyson, Thackeray, Burns, Browning, Tolken, Noyes, Lewis Carroll, Frank Baum, Hugo Gernsback, Hitler, Goebbels, the KKK, and of course C. S. Lewis. Lewis writes of the “Inner Ring” in The Weight of Glory: “But your genuine Inner Ring exists for exclusion. There’d be no fun if there were no outsiders. The invisible line would have no meaning unless most people were on the wrong side of it. Exclusion is no accident; it is the essence.”

 If you are not convinced and think you can disprove this theory, the Aberlard Reuchlin Foundation offers a $1,416.19 award for anyone who can disprove this theory. And yes, the Aberlard Reuchlin Foundation will be the sole judges. Copies of their thesis are for sale ($5.00) and are normally advertised on the back pages of Nation magazine.