Freethought & Rationalism Archive

scumble · 07-29-2002, 12:25 PM

Beach, did you take in what I said just there?

What I find odd is that you can believe that the Bible has a coherent theme, and it had anything to do with God. How can you think people are inspired by God when you have to take their word for it?

Darkside_Spirit · 07-29-2002, 12:40 PM

Well, one example would be the story of Judas being paid thirty pieces of silver. "Pieces of silver" (while used in the time of the Old Testament prophecy to which the event is attributed) had gone out of circulation about three hundred years before.

Beach_MU · 07-29-2002, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scumble:
Beach, did you take in what I said just there?

What I find odd is that you can believe that the Bible has a coherent theme, and it had anything to do with God. How can you think people are inspired by God when you have to take their word for it?

Regarding your first comment, I'm sorry you had modified your post after I had read it so I didn't quite catch the final version.

Can you think of any other book in history that has been written over such a period of time with such a diverse authorship, where the authors didn't always have access to the other authors' work, that has one central theme and message on a controversial topic? I think that is plenty of evidence, because I would guess that if you merely tried such an experiment with 10 authors on a topic like the meaning of life or homosexuality, you wouldn't get anything that even remotely appears like a central theme.

Beach_MU · 07-29-2002, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkside_Spirit:
Well, one example would be the story of Judas being paid thirty pieces of silver. "Pieces of silver" (while used in the time of the Old Testament prophecy to which the event is attributed) had gone out of circulation about three hundred years before.

Quick question for ya. When refering to an amount of money is it not possible to easily convert between monetary types? It could just as easily been the equivalent to thirty pieces of silver.

Darkside_Spirit · 07-29-2002, 12:43 PM

Unfortunately, the Bible is not doctrinally consistent. The synoptic gospels, for example, strongly indicate justification by works--indeed, almost all of Jesus' commandments are backed up by the sanction of heaven and hell. The gospel of John and the Pauline Epistles, on the other hand, espouse justification by belief.

Darkside_Spirit · 07-29-2002, 12:48 PM

It explicitly says "thirty pieces of silver". Inserting the word "equivalent" is an evasion, not an explanation--not only does it mutilate the text, but it ignores the fact that silver would just be like any other commodity, and so there would be no fixed transaction rate.

Jayhawker Soule · 07-29-2002, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beach_MU:
In particular what recent archaelogical evidence has proven beyond doubt that the Bible is wrong? I don't follow archaeology very much but would be curious to hear.

Are you a young Earth ceationist? How, for example, would your biblical timeline account for:

Quote:

Estimates imply that the resulting Neolithic agricultural practices produced greater yields than those of unattended wild cereals.[5] The scientific estimates of yields come from the ancient naked wheat (Triticum durum/aestivum) found at Tell Halula. This is the earliest known village in the vicinity of the Middle Euphrates in Syria, from which domesticated naked wheat is reported. The site dates from Middle Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB, ca. 7600 cal BC) to the Late Neolithic (Pre-Halaf, ca. 6700 cal BC).

[see <a href="http://www.comp-archaeology.org/AgricultureOrigins.htm" target="_blank">The Origins of Agriculture</a> ]

Beach_MU · 07-29-2002, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darkside_Spirit:
It explicitly says "thirty pieces of silver". Inserting the word "equivalent" is an evasion, not an explanation--not only does it mutilate the text, but it ignores the fact that silver would just be like any other commodity, and so there would be no fixed transaction rate.

I'm not saying they had the word "equivalent" in it, but I'm just saying that doesn't mean that it wasn't. It may have simply been written using the "equivalent" of thirty pieces of silver to make the connection between the event and the prophecy clearer.

Beach_MU · 07-29-2002, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReasonableDoubt:
Are you a young Earth ceationist? How, for example, would your biblical timeline account for:
Estimates imply that the resulting Neolithic agricultural practices produced greater yields than those of unattended wild cereals.[5] The scientific estimates of yields come from the ancient naked wheat (Triticum durum/aestivum) found at Tell Halula. This is the earliest known village in the vicinity of the Middle Euphrates in Syria, from which domesticated naked wheat is reported. The site dates from Middle Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB, ca. 7600 cal BC) to the Late Neolithic (Pre-Halaf, ca. 6700 cal BC).
[see The Origins of Agriculture ]

Yes I believe the Biblical account for creation because I think the idea of evolution is absolutely absurd (though that's not the topic of this forum). There is plenty of evidence such as element deposits and levels that don't agree with an old earth idea. (I'll gladly discuss any of this, but not on this forum, because there's only so many different topics one can discuss reasonably at one time)

PTET · 07-29-2002, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beach_MU:


In particular what recent archaelogical evidence has proven beyond doubt that the Bible is wrong? I don't follow archaeology very much but would be curious to hear.

Try this excellent summary of recent Bible archaeology...

Quote:

...The Hebrew Bible is simply not a reliable source for the history of ancient Israel... If we are content to provide students with mythical, legendary, uncritical histories of ancient Israel, how can we have any legitimate grounds for complaint or criticism when others are willing to provide mythologized, fictionalized histories of other peoples and places?

Jack Cargill, "Ancient Israel in Western Civ Textbooks," The History Teacher (]<a href="http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ht/34.3/cargill.html" target="_blank">May 2001</a>)

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07-29-2002, 12:25 PM	#91
scumble Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 279	Beach, did you take in what I said just there? What I find odd is that you can believe that the Bible has a coherent theme, and it had anything to do with God. How can you think people are inspired by God when you have to take their word for it?

07-29-2002, 12:40 PM	#92
Darkside_Spirit Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 33	Well, one example would be the story of Judas being paid thirty pieces of silver. "Pieces of silver" (while used in the time of the Old Testament prophecy to which the event is attributed) had gone out of circulation about three hundred years before.

07-29-2002, 12:43 PM	#95
Darkside_Spirit Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 33	Unfortunately, the Bible is not doctrinally consistent. The synoptic gospels, for example, strongly indicate justification by works--indeed, almost all of Jesus' commandments are backed up by the sanction of heaven and hell. The gospel of John and the Pauline Epistles, on the other hand, espouse justification by belief.

07-29-2002, 12:48 PM	#96
Darkside_Spirit Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 33	It explicitly says "thirty pieces of silver". Inserting the word "equivalent" is an evasion, not an explanation--not only does it mutilate the text, but it ignores the fact that silver would just be like any other commodity, and so there would be no fixed transaction rate.

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