Kosh

I wanted to start a new topic, aimed at theists such as Dorissa, especially since her bio lists:

and she apparently believes in the Flood.

If you would please, let's keep this to the topic of the Flood timeline only. Radorth and Michael can argue about the size of their woodies in another thread.

Anyway... argue all you want about the size of ships, volumes of space needed, sheer numbers of animals, and the interpretation of geologic evidence. But there seems to me like one overriding issue which sinks the Ark story before it's launched.

The Egyptian and Chinese (as well as others) have, from what I understand, a well documented history which extends from present day back to before the supposed flood. I'd like to know how theists, especially Dorrisa, can justify a belief in the Flood and reconcile this apparent contradiction in their minds.

Dorrisa? your thoughts please?

Kosh

No takers?

MortalWombat

In all fairness, you should give people more than three hours.

Kosh

True, but look how quickly the other ark thread grew to 8 pages....

Vinnie

Under evolution we all came from Africa right? There are gazillions of flood stories all over the place right? Maybe there was a localized flood early in humanity's beginnings that caused all the mythical tales we now see? I grtant that I'm speculating. But I'm also getting off topic so I digress.

Kosh, where does the Bible give a date for the Flood? Adding up the genealogies? Who says they are complete? Old earth creationists like Hugh Ross argues that the Genesis Flood probably occured around 50,000 years ago and that it was a localized event.

His biggest problem as I came to realize (a substantial part played by the creation/evolution forum) is getting all of humanity in that localized area where the flood occured. Can't be done without a denial of evolution I don't think. Even though Ross feels the flood was local, he argues it was universal in that it killed ALL mankind save Noah and Co and this would seem to rule out the factuality of the account.

Vinnie

Sunfair

Not meaning to pick a fight with you, ilgwamh, but do you have a source for these gazillions of flood stories all over the world? The only ones I've heard about are localized around the Mediterranean Basin. There are theories that the myths date back to when either the Mediterranean or the Black Sea flooded (two separate events, if I remember correctly). But I've never heard of any from say China, for example, or South America.

Vinnie

actually I just heard there were lots of flood stories from all over the place. maybe that is exaggerated. I'll check it out and get back to you. I have a book on world mythology that may help.

Vinnie

"There are numerous Chinese myths about an ancient flood, besides those involving Nu Gua and Fu Xi. The most popular concerns a heroic figure called yu the Great. In its original version, Yu was a dragon, or else a creature half human and half dragon in form, whose father, Gun, had been sent down from heaven to control a flood." p. 92 World Mythology

Vinnie

the Incans (south america) also had a flood myth:

Viracocha first created a world of darkness populated by a race of giants whom he had fashioned out of stone. however, thse first people disobeyed their creator and were punished either by being turned back to stone at places such as Tiwanaku and Pukara, or by being engulfed in a great flood sent by Viracocha. The only survivors were a man and woman who were magically borne away to the god's abode at Tiwanaku." p. 254 ibid.

Vinnie

Sorry for the spur of posts! Last one for me tonight. I think even Australia and Africa have flood myths. This book says there is evidence in Autralia that the flood myth or myths in Austrailia may be rooted in fact as it seems the last ice age might have caused the sea to rise enough to have a massive impact on the societies of northern australia.

***edited two typos***

[ September 21, 2002: Message edited by: ilgwamh ]</p>