Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Valentine Pontifex · 07-24-2002, 06:35 PM

Liaoning, China continues to deliver spectacular fossil that give insight on life's evolutionary history. A rather nice fossil of a previously unknown fossil bird has been found.

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/07/24/coolsc.ancient.birds.meal/index.html" target="_blank">Click Here</a>

Hallucigenia · 07-24-2002, 07:52 PM

I had read about this on the Nature site. The "full-blown bird with a long, bony, dromaeosaur-like tail" thing is beyond cool

Aside from the creationist implications, this appears to be another nail in the coffin of the BAND (Birds Are Not Dinosaurs) argument.

[Corrected grammar and added link]

Incidently, here is the Nature link:
<a href="http://www.nature.com/nsu/020722/020722-5.html" target="_blank">http://www.nature.com/nsu/020722/020722-5.html</a>

[ July 24, 2002: Message edited by: Hallucigenia ]

Doubting Didymus · 07-24-2002, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hallucigenia:

Aside from the creationist implications, this appears to be another nail in the coffin of the BAND (Birds Are Not Dinosaurs) argument.

What makes you think this? Creationists have sucessfully ignored much more compelling evidence than this in the past, and they will continue to do this in the future.

We could find a semi-airborne, semi-toothed, semi-scaled sand semi-feathered creature that was so intermediate that taxonomists could not place it as a 'bird' or a 'dinosaur' and have to make a new family: 'halfdinohalfbird-asaurus' and I don't think it would impress many creationists.

Remember that their eternal souls are on the line.

Hallucigenia · 07-24-2002, 09:01 PM

Well, the creationist bit was there simply because it's yet more evidence that they can ignore or distort (the amount of which exists already being quite astounding). I don't actually expect it to convinvce any of them of anything.

To be honest, I find the phylogenetic implications to be more interesting

Oolon Colluphid · 07-25-2002, 12:42 AM

Here�s the Nature abstract. I�ve bolded an interesting bit.

Quote:

Nature 418, 405 - 409 (2002)

A long-tailed, seed-eating bird from the Early Cretaceous of China

Zhonghe Zhou and Fucheng Zhang

Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology, Chinese Academy of Sciences, PO Box 643, Beijing 100044, China

The lacustrine deposits of the Yixian and Jiufotang Formations in the Early Cretaceous Jehol Group in the western Liaoning area of northeast China are well known for preserving feathered dinosaurs, primitive birds and mammals. Here we report a large basal bird, Jeholornis prima gen. et sp. nov., from the Jiufotang Formation. This bird is distinctively different from other known birds of the Early Cretaceous period in retaining a long skeletal tail with unexpected elongated prezygopophyses and chevrons, resembling that of dromaeosaurids, providing a further link between birds and non-avian theropods. Despite its basal position in early avian evolution, the advanced features of the pectoral girdle and the carpal trochlea of the carpometacarpus of Jeholornis indicate the capability of powerful flight. The dozens of beautifully preserved ovules of unknown plant taxa in the stomach represents direct evidence for seed-eating adaptation in birds of the Mesozoic era.

Oolon

ps418 · 07-25-2002, 12:35 PM

I'll have to read this article and add it to my page of notes on <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/fd.htm" target="_blank">bird-like dinosaurs and dinosaur-like birds.</a>

Boro Nut · 07-26-2002, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordValentine:
New Fossil Bird

This is just evilutionist propoganda. There is no way those supposed birds could have flown with such heavy bones and stone feathers.

Boro Nut

RufusAtticus · 07-26-2002, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boro Nut:


There is no way those supposed birds could have flown with such heavy bones and stone feathers.

LOL

07-24-2002, 06:35 PM	#1
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	New Fossil Bird Liaoning, China continues to deliver spectacular fossil that give insight on life's evolutionary history. A rather nice fossil of a previously unknown fossil bird has been found. <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/07/24/coolsc.ancient.birds.meal/index.html" target="_blank">Click Here</a>

07-24-2002, 07:52 PM	#2
Hallucigenia Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: SF Bay Area CA Posts: 35	I had read about this on the Nature site. The "full-blown bird with a long, bony, dromaeosaur-like tail" thing is beyond cool Aside from the creationist implications, this appears to be another nail in the coffin of the BAND (Birds Are Not Dinosaurs) argument. [Corrected grammar and added link] Incidently, here is the Nature link: <a href="http://www.nature.com/nsu/020722/020722-5.html" target="_blank">http://www.nature.com/nsu/020722/020722-5.html</a> [ July 24, 2002: Message edited by: Hallucigenia ]</p>

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07-24-2002, 09:01 PM	#4
Hallucigenia Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: SF Bay Area CA Posts: 35	Well, the creationist bit was there simply because it's yet more evidence that they can ignore or distort (the amount of which exists already being quite astounding). I don't actually expect it to convinvce any of them of anything. To be honest, I find the phylogenetic implications to be more interesting

07-25-2002, 12:35 PM	#6
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	I'll have to read this article and add it to my page of notes on <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/fd.htm" target="_blank">bird-like dinosaurs and dinosaur-like birds.</a>

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