Someone7

Argh, damn them to hell...

<a href="http://www.freedomforum.org/fac/2001-02/watchtower_time.htm" target="_blank">Legal history of this case</a>
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Feb. 26, 2002, 1:06PM

Jehovah's Witnesses challenge permit rule
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- A skeptical Supreme Court questioned today whether the government may require a permit before anyone from a vacuum cleaner salesman to a Halloween trick-or-treater can ring a doorbell unannounced.

The tiny village of Stratton, Ohio, requires permits for any door-to-door activity. The town calls it protection for elderly residents who do not want to be bothered, but the Jehovah's Witnesses call it an unconstitutional limit on free speech.

"You think it's a beautiful idea that I have to ask the government for permission before I can go down the street ... and say, 'I want to talk to you about the situation with garbage pickup?'" an incredulous Justice Anthony M. Kennedy asked the town's lawyer. "That's astounding."

Justice Antonin Scalia mockingly read a portion of the town ordinance that refers to the "privilege" of door-to-door solicitation.

"Privilege?" he exclaimed by way of implying that speaking one's mind is a protected right, not a privilege that the government can grant or deny.

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor drew laughter by asking about a trick-or-treater, or a Christmas caroler.

"The purpose is to prevent annoyance of the property owner," town lawyer Abraham Cantor said.

Lawyers for the church contend that Jehovah's Witnesses need no one's permission to pursue what the church views as its mission to take religion to others' doorsteps.

Mormons, Independent Baptist Churches of America, Gun Owners of America and the American Civil Liberties Union are among more than a dozen organizations that signed friend-of-the-court briefs supporting the church.

The National League of Cities and other municipal representatives back Stratton.

The Supreme Court is expected to rule by July on the church's appeal of a federal court ruling that upheld the permit rules as evenhanded.

The court already has held that the Constitution gives people the right to distribute anonymous campaign literature, and a ruling for the church in this case would extend that right to anonymous door-to-door soliciting for any cause.

Stratton's ordinance requires that permits be obtained in advance before anyone can solicit at a private home. It applies to commercial salesmen, school groups selling candy bars or political candidates eager to shake hands. The solicitor must carry the permit for display to any resident who asks.

Attorneys for the Jehovah's Witnesses said the town of roughly 300 people passed the ordinance in 1998 to keep away members of the faith from a church in a neighboring town. Stratton's mayor then told a group of Jehovah's Witnesses they were not permitted in the town, and people had moved to Stratton to get away from them, the lawyers said.

Church lawyers said similar permit requirements have popped up in other jurisdictions over the years. Neither the church nor First Amendment scholars keep track of how many localities have such requirements.

Village leaders said permits are free, and nobody has ever been denied one. The ordinance is reasonable in "weighing the First Amendment rights of canvassers against the right of homeowners to security, privacy and peacefulness in their homes," they told the Supreme Court.

The Constitution's First Amendment guarantees both free speech and the free exercise of religion.

The case is Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York Inc. v. Village of Stratton, Ohio, et al., 00-1737.
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Source: <a href="http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/1272268" target="_blank">Houston Chronicle</a>

[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: Someone7 ]</p>

copernicus

This issue seems not so cut and dried to me. It is not that the municipality is banning all door-to-door solicitations, but that they can withhold permits from certain groups that solicit. It would be a first amendment violation to ban religious solicitations, but not other types. That strikes me as a type of censorship. Moreover, I'm not even sure that a government body can ban all solicitations. Everyone has the right to put up "no trespassing" or "no solicitations" signs. That is the individual property owner, not a government body.

Toto

The municipality was not banning anyone, just asking them to get a pro forma permit. The JW were not complaining about being denied a permit, but about having to get one in the first place.

But with the ACLU and the JW on the same site, it doesn't sound good for Stratton.

Doug

I really hope that the ACLU bashing, knee jerk right wingers see this. The ACLU plays no favorites when it comes to civil liberties issues. This is a good example of taking the side of religious groups.

The Resistance

I got to admit the need for permits to go door to door is rather absurd. JWs can be told to get the hell off my property (if I had any) and don't come back. The only time I ever had to deal with a JW was over the phone anyway.

Oresta

Here's Slate's take on the case. It's done with a lighter touch, but there's more on the legal issues of the case.

<a href="http://slate.msn.com/?id=2062575" target="_blank">http://slate.msn.com/?id=2062575</a>

brighid

Should any body be allowed to knock on your door and solicit products or literature to you? And No Solicitation signs don’t stop JW’s nor do they stop coming back after you have told them you aren’t interested. Imagine the outrage if Muslim or New Age Evangelists started knocking on doors! Those people would be crying out – PERMITS, PERMITS!! It’s too bad that minority religions get such shit in this country because it would really be nice to place the shoe on the other foot of these lunatics that waste your time knocking on your damn door. If I wanted to hear about their crap I would go to one of the many churches that proudly advertise their beliefs. I really hate anyone knocking on my door soliciting pretty much anything. Nor do I think requiring a permit limits freedom of speech. What if it were the KKK going door to door, or the Army of God, or Fred Phelps and his God Hates Fags passing out literature and wanting to talk to you about their “righteous” message? And does the state or municipality have a vested interest in protecting or regulating the interests of private property owners? My door is not public domain and on my private property one does not have all the same rights as one does in the public square.

Brighid

Doug

Brighid,

So , they get a permit and still knock on your door. What's the difference? I guess that the town could have a rule about persistent complaints causing a permit to be revoked, but that would be the only way this would make a difference.

I can guarantee you that if JW's or anyone else kept coming to my door despite repeated warnings not to in addition to no soliciting signs, they'd eventually regret it. I'd give them a couple of chances and if the same idiots came back a 3rd time, they'd be wearing paint, dog crap or some other nasty material.

brighid

Yeap – they could certainly get a permit and come to my door peddling their bullshit. However, if there are certain parameters set for the purposes of obtaining and retaining a permit I feel it would be unlikely that the KKK would get a permit in my neighborhood anytime soon. And the permit can be revoked if complaints are filed and if they continue to go to door without a permit they can be fined and arrested. At least with the permit there is some reasonable recourse and hopefully a screening process that each community uses to evaluate the potential nuisance factor.

I haven’t got a JC at my door in a long time and I don’t know what the door-to-door policy is in my town, so maybe I need to check on that. I simply REALLY dislike the idea of people being allowed to solicit anything at my door especially in this day and age! You shouldn’t be coming up to my door unless you are an invited guest, delivering a package or a schedule service person at my home to fix something. Otherwise you are persona non grata!

I also hate all the damned sales people that constantly trying to bombard with there crap at my office. As soon as they find out and IT person exists in my office they feel they can show up, without an appointment to solicit their business – oh how I hate that!

Brighid

Rhea

This came up on another board that I visit. Someone said if they're not leasing my land, they have no right to be on it... which made me think...

Hmmmm.... maybe the sign shouldn't say "no solicitors" after all. Maybe it should say,

"Solicitation fee: $5.
Incurred at time of tresspass.
(which is as soon as you take another step towards my door)
Collected aggressively, photo evidence recorded.
Welcome to our Country Home"

(with a cute little smilie-heart.)
Or for those without a driveway to post their sign "which is the moment you ring or knock"

Yeah, that oughta do it.

[ February 27, 2002: Message edited by: Rhea ]</p>